Jasyon Tatum is still overrated

[denverpatsfan]

Need to beat Philly and win this series. The Philly fans are still celebrating their best draft ever and would like nothing else than to hold serve and set up a game 6 in Philly to eliminate the Celtics.

I don't really understand the modern game. At least the Celtics version of it.

Nuggets have a true superstar who will take it to the hole when the games on the line. Draw the foul. They are making quick work of Phoenix.

 

[duc359]

Are you serious? 55 years takes us back to 1978. The idea that Tatum the whiner is even in the same ball park as KG, Bird, Cowens, Bird or Russell (the greatest player to ever play) is downright laughable.

The athletic and skill level is much higher now than in 1985 or 1965. I am not talking about the players in their time and in their circumstances (team) then. Bill Russells will to win and concentration are mythic. But when he showed up he played most of his career in 8-9-10 team leagues, and almost all those guys couldn't make a roster today. C's had a fast breaking, high shot frequency team, and Russell was what they needed. He had Red too. Stick him on Ft Wayne or one of those moribund franchises - give me the title count if so? His skill set in his prime is not the equal of Tatum or KG. Much of that due to the much higher level of athletic ability. Russells heart and die on the hill mentality Tatum seems to have no idea of, but KG shure grew into that. Tatum too busy with his brand Managers.

Bob Cousy would have a hard time making a D2 college team today at his size and skill set. Skill wise Hakeem in his prime tops Russell too, but its an era thing - Russell would be a different guy and player in Hakeems time or now.

Get some tape of Jerry Lucas, look at the rebound stats, the shooting, the HOF. His game doesn't translate at all. Now if you say you can't compare guys across eras, well then say that.

As for point guards, I always liked Tiny Archibald's game. However, in todays glorified version of H-O-R-S-E he wouldn't fit. His specialty was taking the ball to the basket, forcing the big guy underneath to foul him and then making the layup too. That's was the way you made 3 pointers back then.

Tiny was a fun guy to watch and I was on the floor against him a few times at BCH, but I didn't cover him since I was a Center, and was working on his 3's. Duerod and was it "Conner" were there too. He could have a niche in todays NBA.

One of my goals is to get the entire 1981 ECF on DVD, my favorite of all time. Cowens teams of the early-mid 70's another favorite, but the '08 C's would have left them for roadkill. Not a sign of disrespect, just observation and objectivity. And no I don't like the way the 3 has taken over the game and how the Centers of '85-'95 had so much more skill in the paint. Like McHale/Hakeem, nobody like that now.

 

[Jim Beankie]

The athletic and skill level is much higher now than in 1985 or 1965. I am not talking about the players in their time and in their circumstances (team) then. Bill Russells will to win and concentration are mythic. But when he showed up he played most of his career in 8-9-10 team leagues, and almost all those guys couldn't make a roster today. C's had a fast breaking, high shot frequency team, and Russell was what they needed. He had Red too. Stick him on Ft Wayne or one of those moribund franchises - give me the title count if so? His skill set in his prime is not the equal of Tatum or KG. Much of that due to the much higher level of athletic ability. Russells heart and die on the hill mentality Tatum seems to have no idea of, but KG shure grew into that. Tatum too busy with his brand Managers.

Bob Cousy would have a hard time making a D2 college team today at his size and skill set. Skill wise Hakeem in his prime tops Russell too, but its an era thing - Russell would be a different guy and player in Hakeems time or now.

Get some tape of Jerry Lucas, look at the rebound stats, the shooting, the HOF. His game doesn't translate at all. Now if you say you can't compare guys across eras, well then say that.

Tiny was a fun guy to watch and I was on the floor against him a few times at BCH, but I didn't cover him since I was a Center, and was working on his 3's. Duerod and was it "Conner" were there too. He could have a niche in todays NBA.

One of my goals is to get the entire 1981 ECF on DVD, my favorite of all time. Cowens teams of the early-mid 70's another favorite, but the '08 C's would have left them for roadkill. Not a sign of disrespect, just observation and objectivity. And no I don't like the way the 3 has taken over the game and how the Centers of '85-'95 had so much more skill in the paint. Like McHale/Hakeem, nobody like that now.

Dude... BIll Russell high jumped 6'9.25" (2" off the world record at the time) without the Fosbury Flop and with 1950s track shoes and non-Mondo track material plus easily would've medaled in track in the Olympics if he were allowed to do multiple sports. That's insane athleticism. Not even getting into the unsubstantiated hurdles and 440 times that I've found.

Plus he did this:

 

[Kdo5]

Everyone contributed tonight. It wasn’t the prettiest win but it was the most encouraging of all the games so far. Locked in defense from everyone, start to finish. They erased Harden, harassed Embiid all night. Grant played phenomenal defense on Embiid throughout, despite getting face stomped. Brown, Horford, Brogdon all making clutch plays. Tatum closes.

Having a pretty big confidence swing in this team in the course of a week.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Nuggets have a true superstar who will take it to the hole when the games on the line. Draw the foul. They are making quick work of Phoenix.

Celtics up 2 - 1
Nuggets up 2 - 1

 

[scout]

The athletic and skill level is much higher now than in 1985 or 1965. I am not talking about the players in their time and in their circumstances (team) then. Bill Russells will to win and concentration are mythic. But when he showed up he played most of his career in 8-9-10 team leagues, and almost all those guys couldn't make a roster today. C's had a fast breaking, high shot frequency team, and Russell was what they needed. He had Red too. Stick him on Ft Wayne or one of those moribund franchises - give me the title count if so? His skill set in his prime is not the equal of Tatum or KG. Much of that due to the much higher level of athletic ability. Russells heart and die on the hill mentality Tatum seems to have no idea of, but KG shure grew into that. Tatum too busy with his brand Managers.

Bob Cousy would have a hard time making a D2 college team today at his size and skill set. Skill wise Hakeem in his prime tops Russell too, but its an era thing - Russell would be a different guy and player in Hakeems time or now.

Get some tape of Jerry Lucas, look at the rebound stats, the shooting, the HOF. His game doesn't translate at all. Now if you say you can't compare guys across eras, well then say that.

Tiny was a fun guy to watch and I was on the floor against him a few times at BCH, but I didn't cover him since I was a Center, and was working on his 3's. Duerod and was it "Conner" were there too. He could have a niche in todays NBA.

One of my goals is to get the entire 1981 ECF on DVD, my favorite of all time. Cowens teams of the early-mid 70's another favorite, but the '08 C's would have left them for roadkill. Not a sign of disrespect, just observation and objectivity. And no I don't like the way the 3 has taken over the game and how the Centers of '85-'95 had so much more skill in the paint. Like McHale/Hakeem, nobody like that now.

If Russell played today, he would dominate.

 

[duc359]

If Russell played today, he would dominate.

With the skills he had then? D/Rebounder as then. Elemental offensive skills, besides his very good passing. He'd be a liability at the end of close games with his meh FT% also (.56 reg, .6 playoffs)

8.5/13.0/3.5/2.25 in 28 MPG, and no 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team mentions. Probable 2-3 time DPOY.

 

[duc359]

Celtics up 2 - 1
Nuggets up 2 - 1

Suns at home... Nuggets win in 5 or 6.

 

[Jim Beankie]

With the skills he had then? D/Rebounder as then. Elemental offensive skills, besides his very good passing. He'd be a liability at the end of close games with his meh FT% also (.56 reg, .6 playoffs)

8.5/13.0/3.5/2.25 in 28 MPG, and no 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team mentions. Probable 2-3 time DPOY.

FT% is a valid point. Even Giannis's 70.8% and Lebron's 73.5% are still a fair bit higher than Russell's 56.1%. That being said, Dwight Howard was right there at 56.7%, but when he dominated might now be called the previous era.

 

[duc359]

FT% is a valid point. Even Giannis's 70.8% and Lebron's 73.5% are still a fair bit higher than Russell's 56.1%. That being said, Dwight Howard was right there at 56.7%, but when he dominated might now be called the previous era.

How about Mourning on D ('95-'00) and Rodman (Bulls) with passing skills on O? That's the ceiling if he arrived from 1961-1962 as he was IMO. Both HOF.

 

[duc359]

Dude... BIll Russell high jumped 6'9.25" (2" off the world record at the time) without the Fosbury Flop and with 1950s track shoes and non-Mondo track material plus easily would've medaled in track in the Olympics if he were allowed to do multiple sports. That's insane athleticism. Not even getting into the unsubstantiated hurdles and 440 times that I've found.

Plus he did this:

Have to shoot the ball too. Plus there is the level of competition in his time. Very low when he first came in. Higher for sure towards the end. Then the ABA sapped the strength of the NBA for a few years, but since the merger, the league has gotten better with a few peaks here and there.

Sorry, old-school guys: Modern-day NBA players are better than ever

From Oscar Robertson saying today’s coaches don’t know anything about guarding shooters like Stephen Curry, to Isiah Thomas calling the perimeter defense in the NBA right now the worst he’s ever se…

hoopshype.com

I disagree strongly with the idea George Mikan would be great today given in the article, otherwise it is quite good.

 

[aluminum seats]

Suns at home... Nuggets win in 5 or 6.

Celtics win in 5 or 6 too I think

 

[aluminum seats]

I don't get the love for Tatum. He makes far too many boneheaded plays to be considered great. Maybe it's a media creation.

I haven't watched a hell of a lot of games recently, but I can't tell you how many times I've see Tatum saunter down the court after a rebound, never even look at anyone else and then throw up a brick from 3-point land. Usually the result would be a long rebound and a fast break layup for the other team while Tatum is arguing with the ref looking for a call to bail him out. That's about as close as he gets to LeBrick James.

Dude, your dislike of Tatum is so extreme it seems personal

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I don't get the love for Tatum. He makes far too many boneheaded plays to be considered great. Maybe it's a media creation.

I haven't watched a hell of a lot of games recently, but I can't tell you how many times I've see Tatum saunter down the court after a rebound, never even look at anyone else and then throw up a brick from 3-point land. Usually the result would be a long rebound and a fast break layup for the other team while Tatum is arguing with the ref looking for a call to bail him out. That's about as close as he gets to LeBrick James.

Dude, your dislike of Tatum is so extreme it seems personal

He hates BB too. One of those people that always hates.

 

[Kdo5]

Dude, your dislike of Tatum is so extreme it seems personal

It’s not just him. Tatum is the top professional athlete in New England now. And the media and fans are quick and willing to get on his case at any opportunity. Any subpar game he will get ripped apart. Celtics win and Brown has a great game; the media narrative is about how Tatum doesn’t have the make up and it’s not his team. I watch every game and Tatum is always playing and playing heavy minutes. And he rarely has any complete duds of a game. He has games where he turns the ball over or shoots badly but he is always playing solid defense and can play make for others.

Tatum has some things to work on but he has accomplished more than anyone in this town wants to give him credit for. Luka, Jokic, Embiid, Ja. None of those guys have been to the NBA finals. Tatum has never missed the playoffs, he’s been to an NBA finals, been to three conference finals and soon to be four. But if you ask anyone in the media they’ll say they want Luka, Jokic, Embiid before Tatum and get on Tatum because he hasn’t won an NBA title.

I like him a lot. Seems like a great guy and teammate and values his spot here. Hope they win a championship and he shines.

 

[1960Pats]

Dude, your dislike of Tatum is so extreme it seems personal

What a stupid response, dude. You have any facts to back up Tatum's greatness. All I've seen so far from him are chokes in big moments.

 

[1960Pats]

He hates BB too. One of those people that always hates.

Another immature response that has zero to do with Tatum the Whiner.

I don't hate BB. He's just a coach. And he has far less to do with winning than the players he dumped. Otherwise his record wouldn't be so ****ty without them.

 

[1960Pats]

Have to shoot the ball too. Plus there is the level of competition in his time. Very low when he first came in. Higher for sure towards the end. Then the ABA sapped the strength of the NBA for a few years, but since the merger, the league has gotten better with a few peaks here and there.

Sorry, old-school guys: Modern-day NBA players are better than ever

From Oscar Robertson saying today’s coaches don’t know anything about guarding shooters like Stephen Curry, to Isiah Thomas calling the perimeter defense in the NBA right now the worst he’s ever se…

hoopshype.com

I disagree strongly with the idea George Mikan would be great today given in the article, otherwise it is quite good.

Take the amount of teams in the NBA right now, cut the number in half and then redraft the players. Will the league be weaker with less teams? Of course not. It would be much stronger.

 

[1960Pats]

I'm still waiting for one of you youngsters to make a case for Tatum's greatness. I keep hearing him referred to as a top 5 NBA player but I haven't seen anything that proves that, especially now at playoff time.

I get that you're in a tough spot trying to jack up a player with so many flaws, but see if you can come up with something. Maybe you can tell me how much greater Tatum is than Larry Bird, though that will be tough since Bird was a hell of a better player than Tatum ever will be.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm still waiting for one of you youngsters to make a case for Tatum's greatness. I keep hearing him referred to as a top 5 NBA player but I haven't seen anything that proves that, especially now at playoff time.

I get that you're in a tough spot trying to jack up a player with so many flaws, but see if you can come up with something. Maybe you can tell me how much greater Tatum is than Larry Bird, though that will be tough since Bird was a hell of a better player than Tatum ever will be.

Tatum probably is one of the top 5-10 players in today's NBA. He had a great season on the league's best team.

Hes also been a pretty good playoff performer especially last year before he ran out of gas.

...but in no way should he be compared to Bird or other GOATs from the past who have won championships, reg season and playoff MVPs. That's not fair to him.

He has the opportunity to accomplish that. I love his talent. Let's see if he can do it.