Malcolm Butler as CB1 over Gilmore

[TinhWoodhead]

You mean 10 in the second half we got bailed out by a questionable rule

Giving up 24 points to the jets is embarrassing

panthers got bailed out too in game against us

 

[Rob0729]

I thought Butler was pretty much yesterday what we have been seeing all year - some spectacular play, some awful play. I still think he has been way too inconsistent this year.

 

[luuked]

So now forcing a fumble is questionable, and we just award the points?

Yep. The amazing thing is the mental disconnect that some exhibit here that praise Butler for this SB49 INT but call the touchback a fluke play. Both, the specific play in the SB and punching the ball out are things that are practice in the game and both were pretty low probability outcomes. And yet one is celebrated the other minimized. Go figure..

 

[Ivan]

So now forcing a fumble is questionable, and we just award the points?

I agree. Imo people are confusing going to the ground while making a catch with fumbling into and out of the end zone. ASJ had control of the football and was at that point a runner, he lost control as he crossed the plane and landed out of the end zone, that’s a touchback.

 

[JayNM]

Butler had his best game against the Jets, so if he builds on that, I might change my opinion in the near future but he has not been playing like he deserves a 14M / Year (Nor has Gilmore, in case you're wondering). He has been burnt by #2s WR this season and has left some cushy space between him and his man in more than one occasion.

That being said, when we needed him the most this season, he delivered (against the Jets), and I don't even need to talk about THAT play... so he has this clutch instinct that we love in Dola.. Just sayin'

I woudn't have mind if we had paid Butler instead of Gilmore, but I don't think we will offer him an equal contrac anymore. For one, it's way too top heavy , which has never been the BB way and secondly, as we can see this season, it's no guarantee that we will consistently get "elite production" out of him.

Let him test the market, but keep the communications clear and open. If someone offers him Cb #1 money, we thank him for everything and let him go.

He is one of the few players that I can't help but support, he entered the league as UDFA, guys, let's not forget... I wish nothing but the best for him personally

 

[captain insano]

Malcolm Butler as CB1 over Gilmore

The organization should acknowledge Gilmore isn't a CB1 and fix this.

- The Jets game reminded everyone of how Butler remains one of the most clutch big-play CB's in the league. The defense (especially McCourty) plays better with Butler as CB1.

- Butler already made one pro bowl and narrowly missed on a second pro bowl.

- Gilmore has some of the worst football / scheme awareness I've seen as a CB1. You can't rely on a corner who completely blows assignments or adjustments, it exposes your safeties.

- Gilmore may arguably have superior physical gifts but in terms of awareness, intelligence, performing through adversity and delivering big plays, Malcolm Butler is a much better fit at CB1. This reminds me right now of a cornerback version scenario of Drew Henson v Brady at Michigan.

gilmore was a huge mistake. they should cut their losses and dump him as soon as it makes sense to do so. he will go down as one of BB worst free agent signings.

 

[Ring 6]

gilmore was a huge mistake. they should cut their losses and dump him as soon as it makes sense to do so. he will go down as one of BB worst free agent signings.

LOL 4 ganes in. (Because only a true idiot would say this based upon him shutting down Mike Evans in hos 5th)
Let me guess you were a bench brady guy in 2014 right?

 

[captain insano]

LOL 4 ganes in. (Because only a true idiot would say this based upon him shutting down Mike Evans in hos 5th)
Let me guess you were a bench brady guy in 2014 right?

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa personal insults whaaaaaa. gilmore must be related to you. why else would you take my comments so personally? I expect a **** load more from a guy with the contract he has. gilmore blows. he supposed to be their number one corner and he cant understand who he is supposed to cover. pathetic. you must be watching different games than I am.

 

[Ring 6]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa personal insults whaaaaaa. gilmore must be related to you. why else would you take my comments so personally? I expect a **** load more from a guy with the contract he has. gilmore blows. he supposed to be their number one corner and he cant understand who he is supposed to cover. pathetic. you must be watching different games than I am.

Nope same games, I just understand what I am watching.

 

[captain insano]

Nope same games, I just understand what I am watching.

you just think you do.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Malcolm Butler as CB1 over Gilmore

The organization should acknowledge Gilmore isn't a CB1 and fix this.

- The Jets game reminded everyone of how Butler remains one of the most clutch big-play CB's in the league. The defense (especially McCourty) plays better with Butler as CB1.

- Butler already made one pro bowl and narrowly missed on a second pro bowl.

- Gilmore has some of the worst football / scheme awareness I've seen as a CB1. You can't rely on a corner who completely blows assignments or adjustments, it exposes your safeties.

- Gilmore may arguably have superior physical gifts but in terms of awareness, intelligence, performing through adversity and delivering big plays, Malcolm Butler is a much better fit at CB1. This reminds me right now of a cornerback version scenario of Drew Henson v Brady at Michigan.

As I've posted to others and got the response of crickets, where are the metrics? Where is the video? Everyone is repeating the phrase Gilmore sucks (in some form) but in its entirety I've seen one MSM posted video clip of one play that suggests (not factual -- a strong suggestion) Gilmore misread the coverage play.
So I'll buy into Gilmore is the problem when someone can provide some evidence. But evidence is not 'he's new, our pass D is subpar, then it must be Gilmore' (the classic of classic logical fallacies). Further, given there were mixups on coverage with Gilmore out, the same logical fallacy can be applied that the problem isn't Gilmore, no?

Numerously repeating something does not make it true. For those so certain Gilmore has all these negatives, how about at least some sort of compiled 'assignment blown' number? Pass to completion ration on Gilmore's man or area? Some All-22 video of at least a handful of examples showing Gilmore not doing what he needs to do to make the pass coverage competitive?

Seems so simple given all of the 'Gilmore is bad' repeats -- there must be a TON of numbers/examples given the dramatic and absolute statements on Gilmore -- yet nothing posted in the way of facts/metrics.

 

[Ring 6]

you just think you do.

Well unless your posts are bombastic uncontrolled exaggeration, then you surely have no clue what you are seeing.

Seriously, after the ENTIRE secondary had issues with leaving receivers uncovered and 4 games into a 6 year contract, the guy Bill Belichick personally selected to be the second highest paid contract he has ever given out, you declare him a useless waste who needs to be gone.

If that is really the way your thought process works, what comes out of your mouth is meaningless.

 

[Ring 6]

As I've posted to others and got the response of crickets, where are the metrics? Where is the video? Everyone is repeating the phrase Gilmore sucks (in some form) but in its entirety I've seen one MSM posted video clip of one play that suggests (not factual -- a strong suggestion) Gilmore misread the coverage play.
So I'll buy into Gilmore is the problem when someone can provide some evidence. But evidence is not 'he's new, our pass D is subpar, then it must be Gilmore' (the classic of classic logical fallacies). Further, given there were mixups on coverage with Gilmore out, the same logical fallacy can be applied that the problem isn't Gilmore, no?

Numerously repeating something does not make it true. For those so certain Gilmore has all these negatives, how about at least some sort of compiled 'assignment blown' number? Pass to completion ration on Gilmore's man or area? Some All-22 video of at least a handful of examples showing Gilmore not doing what he needs to do to make the pass coverage competitive?

Seems so simple given all of the 'Gilmore is bad' repeats -- there must be a TON of numbers/examples given the dramatic and absolute statements on Gilmore -- yet nothing posted in the way of facts/metrics.

Its simple. Something went wrong in the secondary, he is the highest paid player in the secondary so it has to be his fault.
If you expect deeper thought than that from many of the posters here, you are asking way too much.

 

[Deus Irae]

I’m not sure what this is supposed to accomplish. Butler is going to start at one corner spot, and Gilmore is going to start at the other. This is like arguing whether Solder or Cannon deserves to be called the “#1” offensive tackle.

Cannon, without question

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Its simple. Something went wrong in the secondary, he is the highest paid player in the secondary so it has to be his fault.
If you expect deeper thought than that from many of the posters here, you are asking way too much.

Well AJ, do you have any metrics you can show for percentage of emotional and erroneous statements by posters?

 

[IcyPatriot]

This thread is based on Butler's performance against the Jets?

Not the Eagles or the Chiefs but the Jets ... let that sink in a bit.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread is based on Butler's performance against the Jets?

Not the Eagles or the Chiefs but the Jets ... let that sink in a bit.

Ehh..... People are pimping Gilmore based upon an overrated performance against the Bucs. Seems like an evening out sort of thing.

 

[edboc]

gilmore was a huge mistake. they should cut their losses and dump him as soon as it makes sense to do so. he will go down as one of BB worst free agent signings.

Maybe after next season?
Stephon Gilmore Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money | Over The Cap

 

[supafly]

As I've posted to others and got the response of crickets, where are the metrics? Where is the video? Everyone is repeating the phrase Gilmore sucks (in some form) but in its entirety I've seen one MSM posted video clip of one play that suggests (not factual -- a strong suggestion) Gilmore misread the coverage play.
So I'll buy into Gilmore is the problem when someone can provide some evidence. But evidence is not 'he's new, our pass D is subpar, then it must be Gilmore' (the classic of classic logical fallacies). Further, given there were mixups on coverage with Gilmore out, the same logical fallacy can be applied that the problem isn't Gilmore, no?

Numerously repeating something does not make it true. For those so certain Gilmore has all these negatives, how about at least some sort of compiled 'assignment blown' number? Pass to completion ration on Gilmore's man or area? Some All-22 video of at least a handful of examples showing Gilmore not doing what he needs to do to make the pass coverage competitive?

Seems so simple given all of the 'Gilmore is bad' repeats -- there must be a TON of numbers/examples given the dramatic and absolute statements on Gilmore -- yet nothing posted in the way of facts/metrics.

I think Gilmore is getting criticized too much as well, but there have been breakdowns by some of the beat writers that don't paint him in a favorable light. I don't have the numbers since it's been a couple/few weeks, but I'm sure the articles may still pop up deep into the newsfeed on the front page. There have been some completion ratios, assignment breakdowns, etc. Whether or not we should believe them is the main question, but there have been several different parties who have provided poor stats.

It's probably just a bit of a growing period like we're seeing with most of the team, although I'm skeptical as to whether or not he ever justifies that huge contract, as the signing seemed a bit odd to me. Thankfully, that Belichick guy knows what he's looking for better than I do.

 

[supafly]

Maybe after next season?
Stephon Gilmore Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money | Over The Cap

Yes, they're pretty much committed through the 2018 season. After that, I believe we'd see some cap savings. Way too early to worry about stuff like that, though.