OK. We Know the Rumor is Peters in Washington Wants McCarthy at pick #2. Imagine if We can Leverage his Choice?

[Ivan]

Cousins,
This is a definite maybe. What if we can do a Sonny Weaver Jr. and jump around the board and wind up with three upper tier starters including the best WR in the NFL, get our young QB with whom the Pats have studied and met and wind up with three extra picks? Balderdash you say?......nay, nay Cousins.

Iffin' Adam Peters is not blowing smoke and/or leprechaun poop, this Pats Draft could be a win in a big way. We have the cash and resources to "buy" these players of mention. Poster "Bourne Again Christian" mentioned this. Credit to him.

The players and the Teams in the Drama are not make believe. The Teams in question have surely approached the Pats already,,,,,as long as Wolf doesn't have his phone on airplane mode.

Here we go:
1) Adam Peters and Washington Draft JJ McCarthy at pick #2. I don't know, why but they have done the study. BS?

2) That leaves that Pats at pick #3 with their choice of Maye or Daniels. "Lord God, let that infant John Carson screw this up"
The Vikes and the Broncos are gunning for the #3 pick and perhaps the Raiders.
What if we trade the pick #3 to the Vikes but with a caveat? We know they will trade #11 and #23 in the first but they know that is not enough. It might be their first in 2025 or more. How about Jefferson instead of surrendering a 2025 First Rounder and give us your 2025 3rd Round pick. OK Vikes, we known you have almost $58mm in dead money because of Cousins et/al. You can't give Jefferson that fat contract. The Pats can. If not, he hits FA in 2025 anyway.

3) Now let's take those picks at #11 and #23 and trade them to............ AZ!!!!! for pick #4 ...yep....and their 3rd round pick #90. It's a little sweeter in value points for AZ .......but it's called QB tax.

4) Sean Payton comes calling for the Broncos." You wouldn't want to trade #4 for #12 and a couple of top players plus our second rounder in 2025 would you?"
"We will give you star CB Patrick Surtain Jr and LT Garrett Boles, #12 and out third Rounder in 2025. Wolf says as a counter, "We want a First if we can not resign both for 2025".

5) Finally at pick #12 we go WR or OT and at pick #34 take the remaining QB Nix or Penix. .........and for the final competition we pick South Carolina sleeper QB Rattler at pick #68 WE DOUBLE DIP at QB still leaving us STILL with a second pick #90 in the third and the balance of our Draft class.

Could Nix or Penix do damage with Jefferson? Would Gonzo and Surtain be a pretty good CB tandem? Could Boles start at LT day one?

How close are Nix and Penix to the "Holy Three plus one"? Could 'double dip QB Rattler" compete and win the job?

You have an extra 3rd #90 in 2024 and two future picks in 2025.

Thoughts and threats?

Love these trades.
DW Toys

Cousin, I’m just finishing a tasty breakfast of Shredded Wheat and C4. And like you I’m thinking big time. I won’t go through all of the machinations, but in short order we end up with Tom Brady, Barry Sanders, Randy Moss, and Wayne Fontes as our Head Coach, with that Jets guy with the twin brother with long hair as our GM. That’s a HOF Dream Team, no one would beat us. I pity the fool who coaches the fish.

 

[PatsFan2]

I would keep it at Maye and Daniels . McCarthy may get there during his time in NFL but he is more of a work in progress when it comes to the NFL game especially as he came from a very run heavy Offense. We shall see

JJ McCarthy over J Daniels what a joke keep Reaching Commanders.

 

[DW Toys]

JJ McCarthy over J Daniels what a joke keep Reaching Commanders.

Cousin,
I wouldn't mind Daniels if he fell to us at #3 but is he not basically a one year wonder? McCarthy is as well if you see he built his resume to a Trent Dilfer status. Now Trent won a Superbowl but is was his Team that won it, not him.

I still think, sorry Cousin Ivan! That the Pats are (let's give them a break) are in a semi-rebuild and we are not ready for a top three (supposedly and I have my doubts) QB.

We have a defensive minded Coach who was anointed before BB ever left and who has never had a Coach Title but the Players love him? We have a new OC who was fired a few months ago. We have a de-facto GM, personnel guy that no one calls out because he has been pulling the strings here on FA pickups and Draft choices a few years and his grade is a "D" AT BEST.

What are we doing here?

There are more than 3 QBs in this Draft. The truth is that one of the top three bring their Teams to the playoff is less than 40%. So we are all banking that Stroud II exists in this #3 pick.? If you believe that raise your hand. It's called hype. These three all have warts and the hype gaslights the truth.

A couple of side bars.I am not a Nix fan but he has the second fastest release after Williams. A Brady strong point. His traits including a very innate ability to avoid trouble in the pocket and can throw on the run. (ie his school yard ball is very good). His big and strong unlike Daniels and McCarthy. His arm has been underestimated because his WR at Oregon were so adept at RAC. He has a pro arm unlike Corky. These are traits a young QB has got to survive here the next couple years.

Spencer Rattler is the sleeper here. Maybe only second best rocket arm after Penix. His record at Oklahoma was superb and was forced out only by fate....... Caleb Williams, who ironically blew off Oklahoma for USC. Rattler went to the other USC. If Rattler went to Georgia instead of a undermanned South Carolina he might be a top three.

You can always double dip with these two. I like that idea.

My point is defensively we are a top ten team. Offensively we are a bottom 30 Team. OK so how do we minimalize this Team's deficit? We have to become even more of a running Team....boring.....,We don't have the OL nor running backs that are the work horses to keep us out of third and tens. Stephenson is ok. meh Zeke was actually a great fill in (should resign him) but you need a pain in the ass runner like Pacheco (wasn't he shot in Sheeps Head Bay ( Movie please?), You need a bell cow, a good defense (we got) and a QB who can be a "once-in-a-while" savior.This builds confidrence in the young man and he goes from there.

We need more roster studs and blue chippers, not a top three QB who WATCHES OVER THE TABLET (USED TO BE CLIPBOARD) . So I am throwing in with the Trade Down club. We can get a Nix , Penix of Rattler later.
DW Toys

 

[The Gr8est]

A team only gets one #1 and #2 pick every year, and a trade down which acquires extra picks can significantly speed up your rebuild, assuming that you hit in the picks, and that is not a given, but neither is the QB a given, and if he is he has no other players around him.

Drafting a QB at #3, with the expectation of sitting him is a questionable proposition.

I wish I had a crystal ball and knew where another team was planning to draft Rattler, so the Pats could scoop them.

 

[mgteich]

.

We need more roster studs and blue chippers, not a top three QB who WATCHES OVER THE TABLET (USED TO BE CLIPBOARD) . So I am throwing in with the Trade Down club. We can get a Nix , Penix of Rattler later.
DW Toys

If the team believes that Nix, Penix or Rattler has close to the percentage of success as the top 4, then they will certainly trade down, probably to between 8 and 12, picking up significant draft capital.

It is easy to say that we can wait and pick Penix at 34 or Rattler at 68. However, there is no assurance that they will be there. Once Nix is pick (probably before 20), there will still be QB needy teams who will then try to draft Penix or Rattler.

 

[Ivan]

Cousin,
I wouldn't mind Daniels if he fell to us at #3 but is he not basically a one year wonder? McCarthy is as well if you see he built his resume to a Trent Dilfer status. Now Trent won a Superbowl but is was his Team that won it, not him.

I still think, sorry Cousin Ivan! That the Pats are (let's give them a break) are in a semi-rebuild and we are not ready for a top three (supposedly and I have my doubts) QB.

We have a defensive minded Coach who was anointed before BB ever left and who has never had a Coach Title but the Players love him? We have a new OC who was fired a few months ago. We have a de-facto GM, personnel guy that no one calls out because he has been pulling the strings here on FA pickups and Draft choices a few years and his grade is a "D" AT BEST.

What are we doing here?

There are more than 3 QBs in this Draft. The truth is that one of the top three bring their Teams to the playoff is less than 40%. So we are all banking that Stroud II exists in this #3 pick.? If you believe that raise your hand. It's called hype. These three all have warts and the hype gaslights the truth.

A couple of side bars.I am not a Nix fan but he has the second fastest release after Williams. A Brady strong point. His traits including a very innate ability to avoid trouble in the pocket and can throw on the run. (ie his school yard ball is very good). His big and strong unlike Daniels and McCarthy. His arm has been underestimated because his WR at Oregon were so adept at RAC. He has a pro arm unlike Corky. These are traits a young QB has got to survive here the next couple years.

Spencer Rattler is the sleeper here. Maybe only second best rocket arm after Penix. His record at Oklahoma was superb and was forced out only by fate....... Caleb Williams, who ironically blew off Oklahoma for USC. Rattler went to the other USC. If Rattler went to Georgia instead of a undermanned South Carolina he might be a top three.

You can always double dip with these two. I like that idea.

My point is defensively we are a top ten team. Offensively we are a bottom 30 Team. OK so how do we minimalize this Team's deficit? We have to become even more of a running Team....boring.....,We don't have the OL nor running backs that are the work horses to keep us out of third and tens. Stephenson is ok. meh Zeke was actually a great fill in (should resign him) but you need a pain in the ass runner like Pacheco (wasn't he shot in Sheeps Head Bay ( Movie please?), You need a bell cow, a good defense (we got) and a QB who can be a "once-in-a-while" savior.This builds confidrence in the young man and he goes from there.

We need more roster studs and blue chippers, not a top three QB who WATCHES OVER THE TABLET (USED TO BE CLIPBOARD) . So I am throwing in with the Trade Down club. We can get a Nix , Penix of Rattler later.
DW Toys

The Patriots have a very good defense, a good running back room, pretty good TE’s, and a number of 2-4 WR’s. They need help at OL, WR, and a franchise QB. They are in position to get their franchise QB at 3, and bolster both OL and WR significantly in this draft. Then they have another free agency and Draft to finish the job.

If they pass on a franchise QB they are then going to have to turn around and give up 3 first round picks to go up and get a franchise quarterback in a future Draft. The players you want them to take can be gotten in any first round of any draft; a franchise QB can’t be. And where you seem to be just fine with going with mediocre quarterbacks, I don’t see any teams being contenders with that kind of mediocrity at QB. So while I always enjoy your fantabulous scenarios of the moves you think they can make, I don’t actually believe in any of them, although the breakfasts do sound good.

The bottom line for me will always be that if they can fix quarterback with a player that will make them an actual contender for the next 10-15 years, then that is what they should do. And if they don’t believe in the QB prospects in this draft then trade out for the 3 first rounders and try again in 26’, because next years Draft is completely devoid of franchise quarterback prospects. But if you want them to pass on the franchise QB this year be sure to be ok with sucking for the foreseeable future - because sucking is all you get with a mediocre quarterback, no matter how good you think the rest of your team is. And if you don’t believe me you can always just look at the playoff teams and champions every year, they aren’t led by mediocre quarterbacks. Whereas as the teams that suck and are continually looking for a franchise quarterback are led by mediocre quarterbacks.

 

[Lavictoire]

Trade down and go grocery shopping. We are safe for now with Brissett as starter backed by two driven QB's breathing down his neck; Zappe and Rourke--an embarrassment of QB riches in our cupboard already!

 

[Ivan]

Cousin,
I wouldn't mind Daniels if he fell to us at #3 but is he not basically a one year wonder? McCarthy is as well if you see he built his resume to a Trent Dilfer status. Now Trent won a Superbowl but is was his Team that won it, not him.

I still think, sorry Cousin Ivan! That the Pats are (let's give them a break) are in a semi-rebuild and we are not ready for a top three (supposedly and I have my doubts) QB.

We have a defensive minded Coach who was anointed before BB ever left and who has never had a Coach Title but the Players love him? We have a new OC who was fired a few months ago. We have a de-facto GM, personnel guy that no one calls out because he has been pulling the strings here on FA pickups and Draft choices a few years and his grade is a "D" AT BEST.

What are we doing here?

There are more than 3 QBs in this Draft. The truth is that one of the top three bring their Teams to the playoff is less than 40%. So we are all banking that Stroud II exists in this #3 pick.? If you believe that raise your hand. It's called hype. These three all have warts and the hype gaslights the truth.

A couple of side bars.I am not a Nix fan but he has the second fastest release after Williams. A Brady strong point. His traits including a very innate ability to avoid trouble in the pocket and can throw on the run. (ie his school yard ball is very good). His big and strong unlike Daniels and McCarthy. His arm has been underestimated because his WR at Oregon were so adept at RAC. He has a pro arm unlike Corky. These are traits a young QB has got to survive here the next couple years.

Spencer Rattler is the sleeper here. Maybe only second best rocket arm after Penix. His record at Oklahoma was superb and was forced out only by fate....... Caleb Williams, who ironically blew off Oklahoma for USC. Rattler went to the other USC. If Rattler went to Georgia instead of a undermanned South Carolina he might be a top three.

You can always double dip with these two. I like that idea.

My point is defensively we are a top ten team. Offensively we are a bottom 30 Team. OK so how do we minimalize this Team's deficit? We have to become even more of a running Team....boring.....,We don't have the OL nor running backs that are the work horses to keep us out of third and tens. Stephenson is ok. meh Zeke was actually a great fill in (should resign him) but you need a pain in the ass runner like Pacheco (wasn't he shot in Sheeps Head Bay ( Movie please?), You need a bell cow, a good defense (we got) and a QB who can be a "once-in-a-while" savior.This builds confidrence in the young man and he goes from there.

We need more roster studs and blue chippers, not a top three QB who WATCHES OVER THE TABLET (USED TO BE CLIPBOARD) . So I am throwing in with the Trade Down club. We can get a Nix , Penix of Rattler later.
DW Toys

I definitely want them to waste a pick on a back up quarterback, just like those you listed.

 

[Steve102]

Trade down and go grocery shopping. We are safe for now with Brissett as starter backed by two driven QB's breathing down his neck; Zappe and Rourke--an embarrassment of QB riches in our cupboard already!

 

[VrabelJr]

Washington proclaiming they want McCarthy at #2 is simple game theory to trade out of that position with teams that want Maye/Daniels.

 

[DW Toys]

I definitely want them to waste a pick on a back up quarterback, just like those you listed.

Cousin Ivan,
Wentz, Lance, Darnold, Wilson and Trubiski are some top 5 QBs who are "back up" QB's.
A QB is a tough position to guaranteed success and less than 50% in the top five. That makes the cheese more binding.
So you are saying "we have a chance' if we Draft one of the Holy Three?
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

The Patriots have a very good defense, a good running back room, pretty good TE’s, and a number of 2-4 WR’s. They need help at OL, WR, and a franchise QB. They are in position to get their franchise QB at 3, and bolster both OL and WR significantly in this draft. Then they have another free agency and Draft to finish the job. If they pass on a franchise QB they are then going to have to turn around and give up 3 first round picks to go up and get a franchise quarterback in a future Draft. The players you want them to take can be gotten in any first round of any draft, a franchise QB can’t be. And where you seem to be just fine with going with mediocre quarterbacks I don’t see any teams being contenders with that kind of mediocrity at QB. So while I always enjoy your fantabulous scenarios of the moves you think they can make, I don’t actually believe in any of them, although the breakfasts do sound good. And the bottom line for me will always be that if they can fix quarterback with a player that will make them an actual contender for the next 10-15 years then that is what they should do. And if they don’t believe in the QB prospects in this draft then trade out for the 3 first rounders and try again in 26’, because next years Draft is completely devoid of franchise quarterback prospects. But if you want them to pass on the franchise QB this year be sure to be ok with sucking for the foreseeable future, because sucking is all you get with a mediocre quarterback, no matter how good you think the rest of your team is. And if you don’t believe me you can always just look at the playoff teams and champions every year, they aren’t led by mediocre quarterbacks. Whereas as the teams that suck and are continually looking for a franchise quarterback are led by mediocre quarterbacks.

I believe you Cousin Ivan, but the playoff QBs including the SB were not top fives. In fact most of the playoff Teams and QBs that were chosen above 5...is that a fair statement?
I am not against one of the Holy Three although they all have warts, but it is whomever has the best hype.If you took Penix's tape in 2023 only and compared it to Williams 2023, Penix looks better and accomplished more wins. We all agree that might not be the case. It's all conjecture and if I have a chance to Draft say three good to great players versus one good to great QB, that is the conundrum.
We are a bad Team right now. Waiting 3-5 years for us to be competitive again rots.
Again, I use the Trent Dilfer model. Defense and players surrounding a mediocre QB makes the Team competitive in 2024.
Andrew Luck is an example of a sorry Team that never really excelled even though they had a bonafide #1 at QB? True?
So as much as I would be happy if Maye was TB II, it would prove your point but it is less than a 40% shot.
Stroud might be the outlier here.
You do have good points but you are banking all chips in on a definite maybe at #3.
DW Toys

 

[Ivan]

I believe you Cousin Ivan, but the playoff QBs including the SB were not top fives. In fact most of the playoff Teams and QBs that were chosen above 5...is that a fair statement?
I am not against one of the Holy Three although they all have warts, but it is whomever has the best hype.If you took Penix's tape in 2023 only and compared it to Williams 2023, Penix looks better and accomplished more wins. We all agree that might not be the case. It's all conjecture and if I have a chance to Draft say three good to great players versus one good to great QB, that is the conundrum.
We are a bad Team right now. Waiting 3-5 years for us to be competitive again rots.
Again, I use the Trent Dilfer model. Defense and players surrounding a mediocre QB makes the Team competitive in 2024.
Andrew Luck is an example of a sorry Team that never really excelled even though they had a bonafide #1 at QB? True?
So as much as I would be happy if Maye was TB II, it would prove your point but it is less than a 40% shot.
Stroud might be the outlier here.
You do have good points but you are banking all chips in on a definite maybe at #3.
DW Toys

That’s cherry picking.

Mahomes, Allen, Tua, Stroud, Stafford, Mayfield Burrows when healthy are all top 10 picks,, Love and Jackson all first rounders. first rounders. Watson and Flacco both former first round picks.

And yes, I believe that you take a franchise QB when you have the chance, and that you will suck if you don’t have one. And I haven’t seen any evidence that leads me to believe otherwise.

Getting a franchise QB is what makes your team capable of contending, taking mediocre qb’s is what makes you have to wait years and years to become one, and that’s only after you finally get one.


So DW you are welcome to all the mediocre QB’s you can get, I have no interest in any of them. And while you seem to care deeply about being a mediocre team this year, I could care less, I only care about them building a great team, and that will never happen with the mediocre QB’s you seem to be enamored with.

 

[Ivan]

Cousin Ivan,
Wentz, Lance, Darnold, Wilson and Trubiski are some top 5 QBs who are "back up" QB's.
A QB is a tough position to guaranteed success and less than 50% in the top five. That makes the cheese more binding.
So you are saying "we have a chance' if we Draft one of the Holy Three?
DW Toys

You’re right, the Texans should never have drafted Stroud because Zach Wilson sucks.

 

[hornetfb85]

Cousins

Im with you taking a QB late. Supposedly there's 4 - 5 and maybe 6 cant miss Franchise QBs if you listen to the draft Gurus. If BS was money, the draft experts would be billionaires. 50% of these QBs will be draft busts. Just go ask the Browns and Jets who have been there and done that. Finally, both franchises cut to the chase and acquired proven NFL franchise QBs with track records to prove it.

Id rather take Marv Harrison Jr at 3 and have him on a bargain contract.

With you on the experts…

 

[DW Toys]

That’s cherry picking.

Mahomes, Allen, Tua, Stroud, Stafford, Mayfield Burrows when healthy are all top 10 picks,, Love and Jackson all first rounders. first rounders. Watson and Flacco both former first round picks.

And yes, I believe that you take a franchise QB when you have the chance, and that you will suck if you don’t have one. And I haven’t seen any evidence that leads me to believe otherwise.

Getting a franchise QB is what makes your team capable of contending, taking mediocre qb’s is what makes you have to wait years and years to become one, and that’s only after you finally get one.


So DW you are welcome to all the mediocre QB’s you can get, I have no interest in any of them. And while you seem to care deeply about being a mediocre team this year, I could care less, I only care about them building a great team, and that will never happen with the mediocre QB’s you seem to be enamored with.

Fair retort Cousin
DW Toys

 

[varjao]

Don't get a QB in this draft and get ready for 5 years of mediocrity and a complete new cycle of players and coaching staff and so on. No guarantees in the draft of course but if the QB bust you move on and restart probably at the same 4 or 5 year window that you would with the fairy tale of getting all the players you need to surround your QB.

Think Josh Allen, what was the bills before him? What would have been if they decided to pass on a raw prospect at the time to get better in all fronts with no perspective of hitting on a franchise QB. They took their shot and hit it. It completely changed the franchise.

The fastest way to get out of mediocrity is going QB. OK you don't have all the players yet but you will eventually, draft and sign free agents. It's not everyone who will do a piss poor job like the Colts did with Luck.

I feel like this is not 2021 draft all over again. These QBs have a lot of potential to be good, now it's with the teams that will draft them to do a good job and not ruin the kid.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Number 3 to the chargers for Herbert and number 5!

At number 5 take alt!

 

[venecol]

@DW Toys consistently has the most entertaining OPs!

I dont think there is a dumb enough FO that would pick JJ in top 10. He is a backup in the NFL at best.

Cousin is on a constant sugar high though.

 

[venecol]

Washington proclaiming they want McCarthy at #2 is simple game theory to trade out of that position with teams that want Maye/Daniels.

What possible reason would WAS have to trade down from #2 when they need a QB? What a lame take.