OT: Rendering released of potential new Bills stadium

[TomPatriot]

???

$440m for Citi Field is public money but not from NY City. It's from the entire state.
$235m for Yankee Stadium.

Combined total of $1.8B in public subsidy, with $1.1B coming from NYC and MTA.

Most of the tax dollars in New York State for any project come from NYC and its suburbs. That’s where the bulk of tax money comes from, whether it’s for the Bills or Micron or anyone else.

 

[maust]

Usually in the crowd

 

[TomPatriot]

Like building a mansion in a trailer park.

It’s actually a very nice small city. Nothing trailer park about it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Hope there is room for the 1990-1993 Super Bowl participant banners...

 

[GreenCow]

It’s actually a very nice small city. Nothing trailer park about it.

I think a lot of people on this forum would be surprised if they saw Buffalo now.

The billions of dollars that have been pumped into it has paid off.

Harbor front and canal side are going to be amazing.

 

[upstater1]

Most of the tax dollars in New York State for any project come from NYC and its suburbs. That’s where the bulk of tax money comes from, whether it’s for the Bills or Micron or anyone else.

Just curious: are you a New Yorker?

Because I know this state inside and out. I've heard that stat over and over and I've seen pretty smart people offer great counters.

This state has a bunch of fiefdoms that take money from one part of the state and drop it into another.

Take public housing in NYC. All the money from public housing comes from the Thruway system. Then consider the NY Power Project (which is in Western NY). It largely funds the MTA. Not to mention the fact that our winters in WNY are 10 degrees colder than they'd otherwise be because of that power project. The heating tax on us is huge (the power project shuts down the river and freezes the lake in winter with boons, and those aren't lifted until the ice breaks up in May). In this state, there are a lot of below the surface mechanisms that most people don't understand.

By the way, the NYC metro area that includes Rockland Cty, Westchester Cty, Putnam Cty, has 9.6 million people in it. The rest of the state has 10m. The big benefit of having an NFL team in the state is going to go to the state coffers in the form of income tax on team employees and visiting NFL players. The state is going to make out on that a lot more than the locality. Local taxes will be neutral as entertainment dollars are largely fungible in any locality.

 

[upstater1]

I think a lot of people on this forum would be surprised if they saw Buffalo now.

The billions of dollars that have been pumped into it has paid off.

Harbor front and canal side are going to be amazing.

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What billion pumped into it, though?

The Buffalo Billion went to Tesla.

$750m of it.

 

[GreenCow]

What billion pumped into it, though?

The Buffalo Billion went to Tesla.

$750m of it.

A billion is going into the stadium and surrounding areas alone (although that’s admittedly OP).

Over 100 Milion has already gone into canalside by ECHDC.

164 Million into the eastside (just announced this year).

200 Million into the research facility.

Another nearly 90 Million going into DL&W.

750 Million went to the Gigafactory as you mentioned (creating over a thousand jobs).

20 Million into Niagara Falls.

And that’s just public money.

It doesn’t count the millions upon millions of private money that has been poured in, like the 200 Million that Pegula has spent building out harbour center.

 

[TomPatriot]

Just curious: are you a New Yorker?

Because I know this state inside and out. I've heard that stat over and over and I've seen pretty smart people offer great counters.

This state has a bunch of fiefdoms that take money from one part of the state and drop it into another.

Take public housing in NYC. All the money from public housing comes from the Thruway system. Then consider the NY Power Project (which is in Western NY). It largely funds the MTA. Not to mention the fact that our winters in WNY are 10 degrees colder than they'd otherwise be because of that power project. The heating tax on us is huge (the power project shuts down the river and freezes the lake in winter with boons, and those aren't lifted until the ice breaks up in May). In this state, there are a lot of below the surface mechanisms that most people don't understand.

By the way, the NYC metro area that includes Rockland Cty, Westchester Cty, Putnam Cty, has 9.6 million people in it. The rest of the state has 10m. The big benefit of having an NFL team in the state is going to go to the state coffers in the form of income tax on team employees and visiting NFL players. The state is going to make out on that a lot more than the locality. Local taxes will be neutral as entertainment dollars are largely fungible in any locality.

I live in New York.

Nothing you wrote contradicts the simple point I made, which was that most of the tax revenues are generated by the NYC Metro area.

 

[upstater1]

A billion is going into the stadium and surrounding areas alone (although that’s admittedly OP).

Over 100 Milion has already gone into canalside by ECHDC.

164 Million into the eastside (just announced this year).

200 Million into the research facility.

Another nearly 90 Million going into DL&W.

750 Million went to the Gigafactory as you mentioned (creating over a thousand jobs).

20 Million into Niagara Falls.

And that’s just public money.

It doesn’t count the millions upon millions of private money that has been poured in, like the 200 Million that Pegula has spent building out harbour center.

I thought you meant in the past.

A lot of this money though is tax breaks.

Not the Tesla money, that was for equipment (which is already obsolete).

I just don't think they really know how to use this money.

If you put the money toward infrastructure, the businesses will show up.

 

[upstater1]

I live in New York.

Nothing you wrote contradicts the simple point I made, which was that most of the tax revenues are generated by the NYC Metro area.

It's just irrelevant to the greater point of all this though.

The biggest chunk of money will come from the people of Erie Cty.

The state will see a return. Erie Cty won't.

The actual money we're talking about is casino money from the reservations. There is no reservation in NYC.

This means the money is coming from local communities near reservations.

Again, I'm emphasizing the fact that the state takes money from one place (whether it's the Thruway Authority, NY Power Project) and devotes the entirety of the proceeds to something totally unrelated, like NYC Public Housing, or the MTA). This is the same thing happening now. 90% of the money from the Indian casinos comes from the local community. The state's funding for the Bills stadium is entirely the casino fund. Nothing else. This means 90% of the money comes from reservations and local communities (we have the most casinos in NY in Western NY).

This is a great deal actually for the state since the Bills have $500m in revenues and $250-300m in salaries coming. In that bracket, it's 11% tax. We're talking about $28-33m a year in income tax revenue for the state, and all they're spending is the casino fund, the bulk of which comes from Western NY

This is a deal for downstaters.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

Here's a view from the air.

 

[NormZauchin]

Oddly enough, Buffalo has more Gilded Age mansions than almost any American city. There are lots of mansions around here in the city.

Actually, not so odd. The glory years of Buffalo as an industrial city occurred during America's Gilded Age. In 1900, Buffalo reached the rank of the eighth largest city in the U.S. It never again was so high.

 

[reflexblue]

Seems a little overdue, but it obviously looks nice:

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All they have to do now is win a super bowl or two to help pay for it.