Story on Patriots' documentary brings recent dysfunction to light

[1960Pats]

*Super Bowls 25, 36, and 42 have entered the chat*

How so? You think the better players lost those games?

 

[Steve102]

How so? You think the better players lost those games?

Yes.

SB 25 was the Giants and the Bills. Belichick's game plan on D is lauded, while Parcells plan on O to run the ball and chew clock, keeping Jim Kelly's K Gun offense on the sidelines won the game for the Giants. The coaches for the Giants got the players the info they needed to win. Go watch The 2 Bills and see what LT says about Coach Doom.

SB 36 the Rams were the greatest show on turf and the Pats D changed up what they did in the first matchup, and Marz fell into Belichick's trap. Rams win that going away if Marz wasn't so arrogant and gave the ball to Marshall Faulk more. Instead, he was in love with the passing game and lost the chess match will Bill.

SB 42 The Pats could only muster 14 points against a Giant team that barely made the playoffs. Pats were clearly superior.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes.

SB 25 was the Giants and the Bills. Belichick's game plan on D is lauded, while Parcells plan on O to run the ball and chew clock, keeping Jim Kelly's K Gun offense on the sidelines won the game for the Giants. The coaches for the Giants got the players the info they needed to win. Go watch The 2 Bills and see what LT says about Coach Doom.

SB 36 the Rams were the greatest show on turf and the Pats D changed up what they did in the first matchup, and Marz fell into Belichick's trap. Rams win that going away if Marz wasn't so arrogant and gave the ball to Marshall Faulk more. Instead, he was in love with the passing game and lost the chess match will Bill.

SB 42 The Pats could only muster 14 points against a Giant team that barely made the playoffs. Pats were clearly superior.

All of those losses but 42 were as much on the players as the coaches.

In SB 25 the Bill's couldn't stop Lawrence Taylor, much like the Pats couldn't stop Reggie White in the 95 SB. That was as much about talent as coaching, maybe more.

The entire run from SB36 to SB39 was fueled by great players, great defense AND coaching. Sadly, for the last good year for that defense Brady was out for the year.

I'll give you a 42 and throw in a 46 in response. That 2011 loss was a result of pass-happy coaching from the start.

 

[Steve102]

All of those losses but 42 were as much on the players as the coaches.

In SB 25 the Bill's couldn't stop Lawrence Taylor, much like the Pats couldn't stop Reggie White in the 95 SB. That was as much about talent as coaching, maybe more.

The entire run from SB36 to SB39 was fueled by great players, great defense AND coaching. Sadly, for the last good year for that defense Brady was out for the year.

I'll give you a 42 and throw in a 46 in response. That 2011 loss was a result of pass-happy coaching from the start.

To your point, players play, 100%. But if you take a team of all-stars and give them inferior coaching, a team of less than all-stars with superior coaching is going to be much more even than they would be in say the NBA. The NFL is not the NBA, but it is trending that way due to the lack of practice times.

The entire run from SB36 to SB39 was fueled by great players, great defense AND coaching. Sadly, for the last good year for that defense Brady was out for the year.

Michael Holley speculated that the SB 36 team was such a team that lacked superstars and was team first that Belichick spent the rest of his career trying to duplicate it.

 

[1960Pats]

To your point, players play, 100%. But if you take a team of all-stars and give them inferior coaching, a team of less than all-stars with superior coaching is going to be much more even than they would be in say the NBA. The NFL is not the NBA, but it is trending that way due to the lack of practice times.

Michael Holley speculated that the SB 36 team was such a team that lacked superstars and was team first that Belichick spent the rest of his career trying to duplicate it.

Unfortunately there's no way to measure the actual difference between coaches in your example. It's a great way to look at it though.

Holley's comment from the video was great. I also noticed that so far it hasn't been a Bill hit piece at all. It's been a real eye opener and a fantastic look at what went on behind the scenes.

I remember the feelings at the time of the Bledsoe fans but I liked what I saw of Brady when he got the chance. Bill saw it up close and probably knew he was the right choice, but the pressure was on. The way Bill fawned over Brady's ability to pick things up was also fascinating.

I didn't realize just how much depended upon how well Brady performed at the time. There was a lot riding on it for Bill, Bob and Drew. I was just looking at it as a fan of what was happening on the field.

 

[Steve102]

Unfortunately there's no way to measure the actual difference between coaches in your example. It's a great way to look at it though.

Holley's comment from the video was great. I also noticed that so far it hasn't been a Bill hit piece at all. It's been a real eye opener and a fantastic look at what went on behind the scenes.

I remember the feelings at the time of the Bledsoe fans but I liked what I saw of Brady when he got the chance. Bill saw it up close and probably knew he was the right choice, but the pressure was on. The way Bill fawned over Brady's ability to pick things up was also fascinating.

I didn't realize just how much depended upon how well Brady performed at the time. There was a lot riding on it for Bill, Bob and Drew. I was just looking at it as a fan of what was happening on the field.

The behind the scenes stuff is 100% worth the price of admission. I fully believe that Kraft would have thrown out the bunch of them if Tom had failed. It took giant balls to stick with Tom at that point.

My feelings on it were that I was thrilled that Drew had gotten them where they were, but I had my doubts on whether or not he was going to get them over the hump. I can tell you Drew infuriated me at times. My Dad and I were at the Jet game when Mo Lewis birthed the greatest dynasty in American pro sports. I turned to my Dad and said, "Well, let's see how this guy does." I was not in the Drew Bledsoe camp, and was pleasantly surprised that Bill stuck with Tom.

Re: The Dynasty, my feelings are that it's going to show that Tom and Bill pushed each other to be better than they were alone, until Tom outgrew Bill after the 28-3 comeback.

Re: great coaching, great coaches are great because they have great players who carry out their message. Players play.

 

[1960Pats]

The behind the scenes stuff is 100% worth the price of admission. I fully believe that Kraft would have thrown out the bunch of them if Tom had failed. It took giant balls to stick with Tom at that point.

My feelings on it were that I was thrilled that Drew had gotten them where they were, but I had my doubts on whether or not he was going to get them over the hump. I can tell you Drew infuriated me at times. My Dad and I were at the Jet game when Mo Lewis birthed the greatest dynasty in American pro sports. I turned to my Dad and said, "Well, let's see how this guy does." I was not in the Drew Bledsoe camp, and was pleasantly surprised that Bill stuck with Tom.

Re: The Dynasty, my feelings are that it's going to show that Tom and Bill pushed each other to be better than they were alone, until Tom outgrew Bill after the 28-3 comeback.

Re: great coaching, great coaches are great because they have great players who carry out their message. Players play.

I remember working with a guy who criticized the benching of Drew and claimed that he would have also won that SB. I used to call him a Bledshole. And speaking of being infuriated, one of the examples why was one of his passes in the AFCCG when he was going down and flipped the ball backwards over his head. It was pure luck that it wasn't picked off.

Usually when I see something as good as that series I'll try to wait on it and binge watch it at my leisure. But this is too damn good to ignore for a month. I can't wait for the rest.

Edit: And how about the way Ernie Adams threw Drew under the bus?

 

[Pats1971]

To your point, players play, 100%. But if you take a team of all-stars and give them inferior coaching, a team of less than all-stars with superior coaching is going to be much more even than they would be in say the NBA. The NFL is not the NBA, but it is trending that way due to the lack of practice times.

Michael Holley speculated that the SB 36 team was such a team that lacked superstars and was team first that Belichick spent the rest of his career trying to duplicate it.

If you take What is called a great coach and give them bad players, they will be considered a bad coach. See: Bill Belichick. I dont care what you scheme, what you draw up what gameplan you run, if players do not execute, you lose. If Carroll calls that pass play and they beat the pats, it will be a genius move that fooled belichick and the pats, But wilson threw a pick, so them the coach is an idiot. Players determine if a coach is good or not, always have, always will. Been proven too many times.

 

[Pats1971]

To your point, players play, 100%. But if you take a team of all-stars and give them inferior coaching, a team of less than all-stars with superior coaching is going to be much more even than they would be in say the NBA. The NFL is not the NBA, but it is trending that way due to the lack of practice times.

Michael Holley speculated that the SB 36 team was such a team that lacked superstars and was team first that Belichick spent the rest of his career trying to duplicate it.

A team of all stars with a bad coach will beat a great coach and bad players, every day and twice on Sunday.

 

[Steve102]

I remember working with a guy who criticized the benching of Drew and claimed that he would have also won that SB. I used to call him a Bledshole. And speaking of being infuriated, one of the examples why was one of his passes in the AFCCG when he was going down and flipped the ball backwards over his head. It was pure luck that it wasn't picked off.

Usually when I see something as good as that series I'll try to wait on it and binge watch it at my leisure. But this is too damn good to ignore for a month. I can't wait for the rest.

Edit: And how about the way Ernie Adams threw Drew under the bus?

I think he was accurate in his assessment. I also think there's a little bit of a victory lap going on with that, as they knew Tom was better.

 

[archstanton543]

A team of all stars with a bad coach will beat a great coach and bad players, every day and twice on Sunday.

That's pretty much the story of the 2023 Patriots.

 

[Steve102]

A team of all stars with a bad coach will beat a great coach and bad players, every day and twice on Sunday.

That's not what I said, is it?

Players determine if a coach is good or not, always have, always will. Been proven too many times.

Yes, I said that. A great coach with bad players is an unemployed coach.

 

[1960Pats]

If you take What is called a great coach and give them bad players, they will be considered a bad coach. See: Bill Belichick. I dont care what you scheme, what you draw up what gameplan you run, if players do not execute, you lose. If Carroll calls that pass play and they beat the pats, it will be a genius move that fooled belichick and the pats, But wilson threw a pick, so them the coach is an idiot. Players determine if a coach is good or not, always have, always will. Been proven too many times.

I heard Michael Holley talking about this and his comment was that coaches have always been overvalued but even more so now. I agree.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I think he was accurate in his assessment. I also think there's a little bit of a victory lap going on with that, as they knew Tom was better.

I remember after TB played 2-3 games Eddie Andelman was saying "this kids got it" whatever it is, but he was right, TB was clutch at Michigan, and he showed that once he got a chance to play. I know there were some Bledsolites but it was obvious TB was better.

 

[signbabybrady]

I was a Bledsoe guy but Brady very quickly won me over. At first I thought Drew should have gotten his job back but once we won the division I didn't think there was any second guessing Bill's choice. Brady's ankle injury brought a small question during the short SB week but turns out he was fine and after he spiked the ball and AV came out for the FG it was end of debate.

 

[neuronet]

Bill wouldn't have participated in this without Kraft's nudging. This is Kraft's baby, he was deeply involved with the production. How much did this bias the result? Intelligent people can judge that for themselves.

I'm thinking it's pretty clear now just how biased it turned out. Even NFL films is like "Woah too far" and they aren't exactly the NY Times.

Why NFL Films is distancing itself over Patriots' "The Dynasty" show feat. Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's glory years

The Dynasty show is about how Tom Brady and Bill Belichick led the New England Patriots in their most dominant era.

www.sportskeeda.com

Not saying I told you so or anything.

 

[Brotherblues]

I'm thinking it's pretty clear now just how biased it turned out. Even NFL films is like "Woah too far" and they aren't exactly the NY Times.

Why NFL Films is distancing itself over Patriots' "The Dynasty" show feat. Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's glory years

The Dynasty show is about how Tom Brady and Bill Belichick led the New England Patriots in their most dominant era.

www.sportskeeda.com

Not saying I told you so or anything.

Whatever side people stand on this, I think keeping the Mona Lisa Vito line out of it was downright criminal.

 

[captain stone]

And how many more would we have won 00-14 without Bill? 7 or 8 am I right?

We should have TEN ****ING BANNERS (not including the one STOLEN from us in 1976) hanging at Gillette Stadium right ****ing now. Fact.

 

[captain stone]

The Tampa Bay Ghetto refugees are out in force with this one ...

View attachment 56580

Still clinging to this discredited clown take of yours I see…

 

[signbabybrady]

We should have TEN ****ING BANNERS (not including the one STOLEN from us in 1976) hanging at Gillette Stadium right ****ing now. Fact.

Yeah it's a shame Brady fumbled it vs Philly, and that He over threw Moss in 07 and Welker in 11. That's 9 and if he never left that's ten.