The 2013 Prospect Thread

[ZoisKing]

It would be the first time that FSU lives up to the expectations in quite some time. No one has done less with more in college football lately.

We'll see. I'm from ACC country and FSU hasn't been relevant in a while. Neither has Miami for that matter. Would be nice for them to step it back up.

 

[mayoclinic]

Draftinsider looks at 2013 prospects from the Big East:

Scouting for the ‘13 NFL Draft: The Big East

 

[mayoclinic]

Mocking the Draft profile on Mississippi St. CB Jonathan Banks:

Johnthan Banks 2013 NFL Draft scouting notes - Mocking The Draft

 

[mayoclinic]

Another profile, this from from NFLmocks' Mackenzie Pantoja on Michigan St. CB Johnny Adams:

Johnny Adams- 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report - NFL Mocks - 2013 NFL Mock Draft, Fantasy Football, NFL News, and NFL Mock Draft Databases

Not a glowing assessment, FWIW.

 

[mayoclinic]

Charlie Campbell of Walter Football profiles North Carolina OG Jonathan Cooper:

Skill-Set Summary: There is a lot to like about Cooper as an NFL guard. He is very athletic and projects to being a good pass protector. Cooper is quick to get to blocks on the second level and could be a fit in a zone-blocking scheme. He has the strength to open up holes in a power-man scheme, but it wouldn't hurt him to add some more power to battle the heavy and powerful tackles in the NFL.

Another aspect that Cooper has going for him is good preparation for the NFL through practice. Cooper has gone against a lot of talent with the likes of Quinton Coples, Tydreke Powell and Sylvester Williams playing tackle against Cooper in practice. He also has taken on some good linebackers like Zach Brown, Bruce Carter and Kevin Reddick. Most of those players are in the NFL, but Reddick and Williams could be second-day picks next April with strong senior seasons. In their final year of college football, Cooper and Williams should make each other better prospects for Sundays with their battles in practice. As long as Cooper stays healthy, he will enter the NFL with four years of starting experience. He should be able to start quickly for the team that drafts him.

2013 Draft Expectations: Entering his senior year, Cooper looks like a second-day pick. With a season comparable to 2011, he could be a second-rounder. If he gets better and is completely dominant, it is possible that Cooper could sneak into the first round. If Cooper plays in the Senior Bowl and does well that could be a real boost to his draft stock considering he will be playing better defensive tackles than what he will typically see during his senior year.

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Jonathan Cooper

Draftinsider loves Cooper and claims that scouts grade him higher than any OG prospect in the 2012 draft, which would include David DeCastro. I don't see that, but he's a solid prospect.

 

[mayoclinic]

Mackenzie Pantoja profile on William Gholston:

William Gholston- 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report - NFL Mocks - 2013 NFL Mock Draft, Fantasy Football, NFL News, and NFL Mock Draft Databases

Good read.

 

[mayoclinic]

Mocking the Draft profile on Georgia DT John Jenkins:

John Jenkins 2013 NFL Draft prospect notes - Mocking The Draft

Jenkins was adjusting to life in the SEC last year. He's gotten rave reviews from spring football, and good make a big jump this year.

 

[mayoclinic]

Illinois DE/OLB Michael Buchanan had his jaw broken, apparently in a "fight":

Buchanan suffers broken jaw | IlliniHQ.com

No details about the alleged fight. Buchanan, 6'6" and 240# last year, played an elephant kind of role for Illinois. He has some length and skills reminiscent of Chandler Jones.

 

[mayoclinic]

NE Patriots' Draft profiles Texas S Kenny Vaccaro:

Kenny Vaccaro: Longhorn Safety Makes our Short List | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

 

[mayoclinic]

What really lights up my Radar about John Jenkins is his intention to burn off 20 pounds.

As you may've noticed in our voluminous private correspondence, Brother Mayo, I have migrated South, somewhat, in the POUNDAGE of my Optimum SuperBeast, and 325 Pounds ~ Jenkins's target, if he drops 20 of his 345 ~ would bring him RIGHT into the Sweet Spot of my Radar!! :rocker:

~ I don't just want guys who can take on Double Teams.

~ I want guys who require Double Teams.

~ And I believe that ~ once you get North of 325 pounds ~ your weight, regardless of your Athletic Prowess, becomes a burden...and I believe that you become less of a constant threat to penetrate...to disrupt...to play Lights Out for 60 minutes...and, ultimately, to last in this League.

I want guys in the Trenches who're light enough on their feet to constantly threaten that penetration and that disruption, and who're athletic enough to do so for 60 minutes...and who can be expected to play day in and day out for 10 years or more...because their weight isn't a threat to their knees or the rest of'm.

In short, I want my Defensive Tackles to be Explosive, Athletic, Durable...and, of course: ENORMOUS.

I want...SuperBeasts!!

And for me, the Sweet Spot is between 315 and 325 Pounds.

I agree 100%.

The fundamental distinction, as you and I have discussed in the past, is between MASS and CORE STRENGTH. People tend to equate them, but they are entirely different. To succeed at DT you need both, but they need to be balanced. And to have movement skills and quickness as well requires an even more delicate balance.

Ron Brace is a good example of a guy who has more than adequate mass at 6'3" 330# but who lacks core strength, and tends to get pushed around. He's not a pushover because of his mass, but he's never developed the core strength to be dominant. Remember Justin Smith tossing around OLs in the NFCCG last year like they were rag dolls? Smith has much less mass than Brace, but he has phenomenal core strength, and he plays with more functional strength and power than most 3-4 DEs 20-40 lbs. heavier.

Mass IS important, too. There are players with exceptional core strength for their size, but without adequate mass they can't take the pounding and match up with behemoth OLs. Smaller players tend to get worn down by the constant wear and tear of the trenches. Justin Smith couldn't hold up playing DT for a season.

But there is also clearly a point at which additional mass doesn't add much if a player has adequate core strength, and only interferes with movement and agility. And that point is probably somewhere between 325-335 lbs., with very rare exceptions. There will be some variability based on height and frame, of course. Kwame Geathers may be another Ted Washington and play north of 350# effetively, but if so he would be the exceptional. Even huge guys like Terrance Cody have struggled at higher weight in the pros, where they are matched up against linemen with great core strength (it's easier to dominant in the college ranks based on pure size). I think there may be a little more range than you suggest, but I agree that it's very difficult to find guys over 330# who have much in the way of quickness and movement skills. Haloti Ngata dropped from 345#+ to 330# last year, and it clearly showed in his quickness and disruption:

Ravens' Haloti Ngata drops pounds, gains a step | OregonLive.com

However, some people have suggested that Ngata got worn down a bit in 2011 at the lighter weight, and that his play dropped off in the second half of the season as a result. Again, it's a delicate balance. But above 340 lbs. it's probably hard for almost any player to have optimal agility and quickness. Like you, I'm thrilled with the idea of a John Jenkins in the 325-330# range and improved quickness - though I'd prefer that he wait until after the Pats draft him in the 2nd-3rd round to make that change.

While core strength is very important and often overlooked I think leg/hip strength (for lack of a better word) is even more important and overlooked. The core is essentially a link between the upper and lower body, a strong core with a weak lower body isn't going to make for a very effective player.

Also, while mass is an important factor even more important is where that mass is, a lack of mass in the lower body will make it much more difficult to be effective. Take a look at RBs like Earl Campbell and MJD, and look how thick and powerful their legs are, it's no coincidence that they're tough to bring down, having that weight in the lower part of their body gives them a lower center of gravity allowing them to better up end and ultimately overpower someone else. Built upper bodies are cool, they're show but they provide very little when it comes to go, the legs are all about go but not so much for show. One doesnt have to look very far to see chicken legged players with muscular upper bodies, it's very odd to see people intentionally make themselves more top heavy in a game which places a premium on staying on your feet.

Finally, what kind of training are they doing? If Ngata did a lot of aerobics to lose the weight that will ultimately cost him because his on the field work is not aerobic. Training for something different than what you're trying to do will ultimately result in less resources towards your primary activity, that why I'm so happy to hear that Mark Sanchez is putting on muscle this offseason. It's not a lack of bench press strength or inadequate biceps that cause a QB to fail. You go Mark, keep hitting the weight room trying to keep up with Tebow

Long story short, for every yin there is a yang, there will be both advantages and disadvantages with Haloti Ngata playing at a certain weight, the key is for him to adapt his play to take advantage of his current state, if he's playing, at 325lbs, in exactly the same manner that he played at 345lbs, he'll probably lose more than he gains in terms of on the field efficiency.

FWIW, Ngata apparently believes that whatever he gained in quickness by slimming down in 2011 wasn't worth what he lost in stamina. He's trying to get back up to the 340-345# range:

NFL Rumors - NFL Trade Rumors, Free Agency Rumors and More - Rumor Central - ESPN

It's a delicate balance. It will be interesting to see how John Jenkins plays at a lighter weight. He was reasonably quick at 350#. 325 might be too light.

 

[Snake Eyes]

FWIW, Ngata apparently believes that whatever he gained in quickness by slimming down in 2011 wasn't worth what he lost in stamina. He's trying to get back up to the 340-345# range:

NFL Rumors - NFL Trade Rumors, Free Agency Rumors and More - Rumor Central - ESPN

It's a delicate balance. It will be interesting to see how John Jenkins plays at a lighter weight. He was reasonably quick at 350#. 325 might be too light.

Like I said before, he'd need to adjust his game to his lighter weight in order to make the change a productive one. If he's relying on a certain amount of momentum due to the mass that he lacks at the lighter weight, things won't work as well. He'd need to learn how to use his increased quickness to better position himself so that he doesnt need that mass.

 

[mayoclinic]

NE Patriots' Draft lists the top Senior prospects from the Big 10:

Top Senior Prospects for the 2013 NFL Draft: Big Ten | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

Kawann Short and Michael Buchanon are the most interesting to me, but there are a number of guys worth watching.

 

[mayoclinic]

Draftinsider looks at prospects from Big 10 schools Indiana, Iowa and Illinois:

Scouting for the 2013 NFL Draft: Big Ten

They're very high on Akeem Spence. Good. The more DTs the merrier.

 

[mayoclinic]

NE Patriots' Draft reviews prospects from last year's Ohio St.-Purdue game:

Scouting the 2013 NFL Draft: Ohio State vs Purdue (2011) | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

Of note, the two DTs, Johnathan Hankins and Kawann Short:

 

[mayoclinic]

Oops, hit submit too soon. NE Patriots' Draft on Johnathan Hankins and Kawann Short, as well as DE John Simon:

Sometimes stats can be misleading. You see a three-sack game on paper and you figure that the player was an absolute force. In the case of Kawann Short’s performance against the Ohio State Buckeyes, you’d be mistaken.

OHIO STATE

#52 DT Jonathan Hankins
-Lining up mainly at DE, also some DT/NT.
-Strong initial punch, keeps himself clean.
-Loses ball, crashes down on running back and lets QB escape.
-Drops into zone on zone blitz call.
-Double teamed, hustles down the field to assist on tackle.
-Turned by guard and taken out of play.
-Explodes through contact and bowls over the guard into the backfield.
-Sheds block from RT, can’t wrap up on RB.
-Quick inside move, blows up quarterback – called for roughing.
-Stout anchor at the nose, double team couldn’t move him.
-Can’t be moved out of hole with one guy – clogs the middle and assists on tackle.
-OL got under his pads, knocked to the ground – injured on play, did not return.

4 DE John Simon
-Lining up at DE and DT – variety of positions, standing up at times.
-Reading the plays very well, ates ball quickly.
-Quick off the ball, untouched on inside move and gets big hit on QB.
-Drops into coverage, plays the run/pass well on roll out.
-Can’t keep outside arm clean, loses contain and watches RB score.
-Times the snap perfectly, turns the corner well but QB steps up to avoid sack.
-Cleans up in the backfield for TFL, right spot at right time.
-Always active, never stops running around trying to make a play.
-Quick move around TE, wraps up RB near line of scrimmage.
-Instant recognition of screen play, assists on the tackle.

PURDUE

#93 DL Kawann Short
-Lining up at 5-tech and 7-tech DE, some DT as well.
-Thrown to ground, completely off balance.
-Pushed back by TE and OT, on skates.
-Dead feet, looks content to be blocked in passing game.
-Perhaps playing a bit of “mush rush” to contain running QB.
-Pad level consistently too high in run game.
-Beats RT with strong rip move, eventually tracks down QB for sack.
-Shows a spin move on guard, picked up by center.
-Better pad level, pushes tackle into the pocket.
-Coverage sack, sheds center and wraps up on QB as he steps up in pocket.
-Hooked by tackle on QB draw.
-Doesn’t recognizes draws and screens quickly.
-Rarely using his hands, OL locks on way too easy.

Overview: Short had three sacks in the game, but that stat was pretty deceiving. He was rarely dominating and was handled by one blocker the majority of the day. When he kept his pads low, Short did show the ability to disrupt, but his play from the DE position left a lot to be desired.

Hankins sounds like the real deal, and the report on Simon was very interesting. Sounds like a Dont'a Hightower type in some ways, very versatile and active. Not a very positive report on Kawann Short.

 

[mayoclinic]

More on Kawann Short from NE Patriots' Draft:

Kawann Short NFL Draft Scouting Report | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft

Of note:

+Shows good initial quickness off the snap, great first step
+Very strong, especially through his lower body
+Plays a variety of positions (NT, DT, DE)
+Two year team captain
+Leader in the weight room
+Adept at tracking down scrambling quarterbacks
+Shows some arm-over, rip, hesitation and spin moves
+Bull rush effective when pad level is down
+Can use his strength to shed blockers
+Quick enough to shoot gaps and disrupt plays in the backfield
+Flashes good hand usage and placement, but needs to be more consistent

-Average motor at best, although is reportedly in better shape this spring
-Doesn’t play well in space
-Doesn’t seem to recognize plays quickly
-Has trouble locating the ball at times
-Too often content to be blocked when initially stopped
-Needs to develop some counters and a more consistent second effort
-Speed rush on the outside is ineffective
-Inconsistent anchor against double teams, plays on skates at times
-Too often gets locked onto by offensive linemen
-Gets angled out of the play, especially when playing DE
-Pad level is inconsistent, needs to stay lower
-Fails to get arms up to influence passing lames when stopped

Nice physical tools, but too many issues to make me comfortable with him. Hope he pushes some other guys down to the Pats, though.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

John Simon has short arms

 

[Snake Eyes]

John Simon has short arms

How does he play?

 

[NinjaZX6R]

How does he play?

Very active. Never gives up on a play. Has a lot of power and speed. He can play 43DE, 43 DT, and 34 OLB.

If he can slim down, he might fit well w. teams that like short 34 OLB ie Steelers etc.

 

[mayoclinic]

Draftinsider looks at prospects from Big 10 schools Indiana, Iowa and Illinois:

Scouting for the 2013 NFL Draft: Big Ten

They're very high on Akeem Spence. Good. The more DTs the merrier.

Draftinsider updates their big 10 list, adding Michigan, Michigan St., Minnesota and Nebraska:

Scouting for the 2013 NFL Draft: Big Ten

They're not very high on popular prospects William Gholston (4th round grade), Johnny Adams (4th/5th) and Baker Steinkuhler (6th).