The Ron Brace disaster

[The Hurricane]

Ron Brace was a project pick. He lacked the strength to play NT. No one should have expected him to do well last year, and he might not even be great this year. We drafted him because he has the perfect frame for a NT which is an extremely rare trait. Year 3 is the make or break year for him.

 

[spacecrime]

Why do clowns like you jump on me?

They aren't jumping on you. They don't even know you. They just tend to react to moronic posts, that's all. So some idiot posts (#1) that if a rookie doesn't make it in his first year he is a bust and BB whiffed, yadda yadda yadda, then you chime in (#2) pre-mocking those with common sense, and ridiculing the thought that not all rookies develop at the same pace.

So it isn't you personally they are jumping on. Stop posting stupid crap and people won't jump on your posts (though it may take a bit of time as you have a long and stgoried career of starting the dumbest threads on Patsfans).

Nothing personal. I don't know you and don't care to. I would say the same thing to PATSFANINEASTNUTSACK if he were to post dumb crap and then ask why people jumped on him.

(The only personal thing I know about you is that you were in a bad accident. I hope you get better.)

 

[DaBruinz]

Playing DT is not exactly mentally taxing. As Parcells said about it "It is not exactly rocket science." I doubt that there is much learning.

Boomer E. had a funny remark after his interview with Suh: "I thought he was remarkably well spoken... for a defensive tackle"

I suppose one improvement would be that Brace could firm up his body but I doubt that the mental aspect take a lot of learning at that position. OK I will give him one more year.

BB said that it pretty obvious right from the start of training camp that guys like Lawrence Taylor and Richard Seymour would be special. Brace must have fallen into the other category.

You're an idiot. NT and DT are 2 different positions. 4-3 formations are different than 3-4 formations. Responsibilities are different. Then you have teh Single gap and 2 gap systems.

Dude, you are so god-awfully inept with your posts, that you make ELMO look like EINSTEIN.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Ron Brace was a project pick. He lacked the strength to play NT. No one should have expected him to do well last year, and he might not even be great this year. We drafted him because he has the perfect frame for a NT which is an extremely rare trait. Year 3 is the make or break year for him.

LMFAO........get a practice squad player in round 2

can't teach fat

 

[tanked_as_usual]

You're an idiot. NT and DT are 2 different positions. 4-3 formations are different than 3-4 formations. Responsibilities are different. Then you have teh Single gap and 2 gap systems.

Dude, you are so god-awfully inept with your posts, that you make ELMO look like EINSTEIN.

don't matter with brace......fat and weak is fat and weak any way you dice it up

 

[DaBruinz]

Brace was really only in on one game last year and, personally, I didn't think he looked bad at all after the first series. Let him grow within the system and he could become a valuable DT for us (whether for depth purposes or to help install a 4-3).

Brace actually has playing time in 9 games, with 2 starts.. And i agree with you. He didn't look too bad.. I went back and reviewed those 2 games he started.. The first game he was doubled and tripled all game long.. So, while hw was getting blown off, it was because of the double and triple teams. Even WILFORK can't handle that all the time..

 

[DaBruinz]

don't matter with brace......fat and weak is fat and weak any way you dice it up

Except that he wasn't "fat and weak" by week 15.. You could see a significant different between him in the preseason and when he started. But you don't care about that.. You just go by the figment of your imagination that he was horrible in the 2 games he started in, while ignoring that he was double-teams or triple teams on basically every play. And you think that makes him lousy even though he was a rookie.

 

[BlueThunder]

Why the personal attacks?

Sounds like a couple of teenage girls fighting.....

If you're friends just raggin on each other.....................nevermind


BTW...lots of good football info posted here..keep it up

 

[Sicilian]

I'm trying to figure out how you whiffed on this thread.

If by the end of season #2 he is still not contributing, I'll hunt you down and apologize.

Don't even... if Brace never gets better, just because the OP turned out to be right in the future, doesn't mean he was right NOW. It's silly to give up on someone after their rookie season.

 

[lostjumper]

Except that he wasn't "fat and weak" by week 15.. You could see a significant different between him in the preseason and when he started. But you don't care about that.. You just go by the figment of your imagination that he was horrible in the 2 games he started in, while ignoring that he was double-teams or triple teams on basically every play. And you think that makes him lousy even though he was a rookie.

I would echo DaBruinz here by saying Brace improved significantly by the end of the year. As good as many people hope? Certainly not, but the improvement was there. Can we give the guy a chance to continue improving before we call him a bust?

 

[jays52]

I actually really like Ron Brace. People who constantly bash him simple don't understand the difficulty of transitioning from a college 1 technique to a two gap 0 in the NFL. The best nose in the NFL right now played rotationally his rookie year behind a mediocre (at best) nose. The physical transition alone is usually too much. Nevermind the muscle memory that needs to develop in order to play effectively. There isn't enough film on the guy to give a robust eval, but there are a few things that stand out to me.

1) His technique changed dramatically from preason to the end of the season. He looked like he hadn't a clue early, and was executing his technique late in the year.

2) His physique dramatically changed. He looked puffy and soft at BC and when he first showed up in Foxboro. At the end of the regular season he looked like an NFL nose should. His shoulders were freakishly huge. I'm the first guy to dislike physique evals, but it shows his dedication to the S&C program. Any player in the league has the ability to be great, it's usually up to them if the want to be.

The rest of the story is yet to be written, but those who are calling him a bust or a flop are flat out wrong, end of discussion.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I actually really like Ron Brace. People who constantly bash him simple don't understand the difficulty of transitioning from a college 1 technique to a two gap 0 in the NFL. The best nose in the NFL right now played rotationally his rookie year behind a mediocre (at best) nose. The physical transition alone is usually too much. Nevermind the muscle memory that needs to develop in order to play effectively. There isn't enough film on the guy to give a robust eval, but there are a few things that stand out to me.

1) His technique changed dramatically from preason to the end of the season. He looked like he hadn't a clue early, and was executing his technique late in the year.

2) His physique dramatically changed. He looked puffy and soft at BC and when he first showed up in Foxboro. At the end of the regular season he looked like an NFL nose should. His shoulders were freakishly huge. I'm the first guy to dislike physique evals, but it shows his dedication to the S&C program. Any player in the league has the ability to be great, it's usually up to them if the want to be.

The rest of the story is yet to be written, but those who are calling him a bust or a flop are flat out wrong, end of discussion.

In addition to technique and muscle memory, don't you also have to learn to read the way you are being blocked since that tips you to who is coming to double/combo/wham your poor backside, and tells you a lot about what kind of play is developing and where it's going? Assuming you can read it in a fraction of a second and shift your bulk to the right location while fending off those pesky blockers.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Definitely one of the dumbest picks of the BB era. If anybody on this board really thought they weren't going to sign Wilfork, you need to get your head examined. Don't you remember how difficult it was for the Pats to run the 3-4 defense before they traded for Ted Washington? They also got lucky with Keith Traylor. Name a NT in the NFL not named Wilfork that runs a 2 gap scheme and is actually good? The only one that comes to mind is Kris Jenkins in 2008. I had no doubt in my mind that they would sign Wilfork if they didn't sign Peppers. With the Pats having some many needs, the pick made absolutely no sense.

The way the draft should've played out was the Pats taking Maualuga with their first 2nd round pick, then Chung (I'm confident he would've still been there in Brace's spot), Butler, then Vollmer.

I'll gladly eat my words if Brace turns out to be any good.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Except that he wasn't "fat and weak" by week 15.. You could see a significant different between him in the preseason and when he started. But you don't care about that.. You just go by the figment of your imagination that he was horrible in the 2 games he started in, while ignoring that he was double-teams or triple teams on basically every play. And you think that makes him lousy even though he was a rookie.

week 15? you must have been out of the room when hangartner was rolling brace around by himself......doublt and triple teams of brace? musta been the scheme since buffalo knew what they were in for

I watched that game also.........brace was none of that

 

[DaBruinz]

week 15? you must have been out of the room when hangartner was rolling brace around by himself......doublt and triple teams of brace? musta been the scheme since buffalo knew what they were in for

I watched that game also.........brace was none of that

Sorry Tanked, but you don't know what you are talking about. You may have watched it, drunk as usual, but Brace wasn't getting rolled around by Hangartner by himself ever. The Bills had a minimum of two guys hitting Brace on EVERY PLAY. I've re-watched the game twice.. I know what I see.

 

[RayClay]

Why do clowns like you jump on me?,READ where the thread started and learn who started the thread before you go off on your little tirade,I didn't start it...Try again ..duh

sorry, somebody must have logged into your account and wrote this

Be prepared for the "he is only a 2nd year player,give him a chance" crowd in 5.....4.....3....2....1

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

sorry, somebody must have logged into your account and wrote this

What you take as an insult to posters was just a statement that you did not understand,try asking what I meant by it,next time.

You can take it easily 2 ways...you chose the other way

What I was trying to say to that OP was beware of the rest of the members letting you know he was just a 1 year player and you can't judge him like you can't judge Pryor as being better than Brace who played well when he was in there but sometimes it is hard to get through to some of you who spin sayings negatively until I have to explain them.

Sometimes you need to read things from BOTH directions before assuming its one or the other.

If anything,I give a player 2 or 3 years to show something,by then he is a dud or a stud.. its rare that a player suddenly is great after mediocre 3 years in the league but you have to give him 2-3 years to show something.

 

[RayClay]

Playing DT is not exactly mentally taxing. As Parcells said about it "It is not exactly rocket science." I doubt that there is much learning.

Boomer E. had a funny remark after his interview with Suh: "I thought he was remarkably well spoken... for a defensive tackle"

I suppose one improvement would be that Brace could firm up his body but I doubt that the mental aspect take a lot of learning at that position. OK I will give him one more year.

BB said that it pretty obvious right from the start of training camp that guys like Lawrence Taylor and Richard Seymour would be special. Brace must have fallen into the other category.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you?

Nose tackles and 4-3 tackles are the same, right? Duh...

Here's a couple people that know more than you, let me know if you want more.

Obviously, if I had a room full of coaches here, I could find a room full of people to tell you you're clueless, but i just have google.

Those aren't bad options considering how hard it is to find talented linemen who can play the middle in a three-man line.

"You're looking for a guy who has pop, power, great lateral movement in a 3-yard range to both sides of the center," former Florida State guard Jamie Dukes, an NFL Network analyst, said Tuesday. "A lot of guys don't have that."

Beyond natural gifts, the ideal nose tackle has run-stopping heft — 325 pounds or more is ideal.

"There's no question it's a tough position to fill, and one big reason is a lot of teams don't run a 3-4 (defense) in college," said draft guru Scott Wright of NFL Draft Countdown. "It's hard to find guys with that combination of size, athleticism and strength. They're a rare breed."

Replacing a nose tackle in NFL is no easy task — and Miami Dolphins must replace Jason Ferguson

 

[RayClay]

For anyone who wants a clue, competent nose tackles are very rare. That's why people keep swapping guys like Red Washington and Keith Traylor.

Getting a raw big guy like brace is the equivalent of finding a raw NBA center you hope to bring along slowly.

You have to have a minimum size with agility and deremination. How many NTs are drafted in college and become starters? Not many.

And that's the real problem the Jets face. Starting-caliber 3-4 nose tackles are hard to find. They are a rare breed -- strong, nimble, athletic, and very fat. Their job is to clog up the middle of the line, allowing the middle linebackers to target the ball carrier.

The Jets' best bet might be to scour the depth charts of teams that use a 4-3 front in search of a backup tackle who might be suited to making the shift to nose in the 3-4, as both Jenkins and Rogers when they arrived in New York and Cleveland, respectively, in 2008.

Jets looking for a defensive tackle | ProFootballTalk.com

 

[RayClay]

I actually really like Ron Brace. People who constantly bash him simple don't understand the difficulty of transitioning from a college 1 technique to a two gap 0 in the NFL. The best nose in the NFL right now played rotationally his rookie year behind a mediocre (at best) nose. The physical transition alone is usually too much. Nevermind the muscle memory that needs to develop in order to play effectively. There isn't enough film on the guy to give a robust eval, but there are a few things that stand out to me.

1) His technique changed dramatically from preason to the end of the season. He looked like he hadn't a clue early, and was executing his technique late in the year.

2) His physique dramatically changed. He looked puffy and soft at BC and when he first showed up in Foxboro. At the end of the regular season he looked like an NFL nose should. His shoulders were freakishly huge. I'm the first guy to dislike physique evals, but it shows his dedication to the S&C program. Any player in the league has the ability to be great, it's usually up to them if the want to be.

The rest of the story is yet to be written, but those who are calling him a bust or a flop are flat out wrong, end of discussion.

Good to hear that from you. I know Wilfork was playing bad technique well into his second year, I believe. Plus there just isn't any precedent for moving from 4-3 college tackle into competent NT, most teams are swapping the same veterans around.

All the time in the world for Brace to develop and if he does he's valuable as a backup or in a trade.