Why has Bill the GM been so poor the past decade?

[Rob0729]

That's a hard no for me and he was only there for two drafts. Thomas and Decker both broke out AFTER McDaniels was fired and they got Manning.

I said McDaniels is better at drafting offensive players than Belichick. Based on Belichick's record, that isn't exactly a overwhelming ringing endorsement. I mean Belichick has been drafting for a quarter of a century for the Pats and the number of truly great offensive players he drafted could be counted on one hand, maybe two. Brady, Gronk, Edelman, Mankins, Thuney. And even the very good aren't all that many with Branch, White, Vollmer, Graham, Givens, Solder, Hernandez (prior to being a murder), Kazcur, Vereen, Mason, Stevenson, Harris, and Koppen.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I said McDaniels is better at drafting offensive players than Belichick. Based on Belichick's record, that isn't exactly a overwhelming ringing endorsement. I mean Belichick has been drafting for a quarter of a century for the Pats and the number of truly great offensive players he drafted could be counted on one hand, maybe two. Brady, Gronk, Edelman, Mankins, Thuney. And even the very good aren't all that many with Branch, White, Vollmer, Graham, Givens, Solder, Hernandez (prior to being a murder), Kazcur, Vereen, Mason, Stevenson, Harris, and Koppen.

You can't really compare them because McDaniels only was there for 2 drafts. His only two drafts with the Raiders were atrocious. The kinds of drafts you are asking to get fired.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Cunningham never could stay healthy, and when given an opportunity never took advantage. Wheatley I met in market basket one time.. thought he was working there... absolutely agree Vollmer best RT in the BB era. Dunlap a long time vet.. solid pass rusher.. another one of Billy's blunders.. Tate was a nice WR.. injuries slowed his career. Mayo was a great tackler ,Blitzer, run stuffer.. health is what also shortened his great patriots career. This defense was awesome with a prime Vince, McCourty, chung,Hightower, chandler Jones.

I met Julius Jones back in 2004 at the Galleria Mall when I was in Dallas to watch the Cowboys play. He hadn't played his rookie year yet so I asked him when he was going to play and he told me that the he was going to play for MNF against the Eagles and the Cowboys wanted to reveal it at the last minute. Cool guy.

 

[Real fan 02]

I met Julius Jones back in 2004 at the Galleria Mall when I was in Dallas to watch the Cowboys play. He hadn't played his rookie year yet so I asked him when he was going to play and he told me that the he was going to play for MNF against the Eagles and the Cowboys wanted to reveal it at the last minute. Cool guy.

Nice! He was a good player! I've had the pleasure of meeting quite a few patriots players. Kevin faulk was my absolute favorite. He ty law was the most generous . He gave a girl working at dunkin donuts a 100 tip. But your right... 2009,10 we had some big time CB bust outs.

If you take a hard look.. Bill can identify talent he just picked players he wanted. To be a Winning franchise all those years and still be able to get picks in the 1st round was remarkable. Bill missed on most of them is the only downside.

 

[1960Pats]

It depends man....like for example...should we have paid Chan Jones? Especially after his synthetic weed episode?

We never had a problem with paying Gronk and Brady and even foolishly paid Hernandez.

We have always paid for top tier talent...otherwise, we let guys walk. We aren't the only franchise that does this...

Never had a problem paying? Gronk and Brady both left because Bill wanted them to continue playing for less than their worth. They pulled the same crap with Thuney, who also went to another team and quickly got a ring. And if Miami wins the SB Gilmore will make it 4 for 4.

It's no surprise that getting rid of all that talent in just the last few years has made the Pats a cellar dweller.

 

[sb1]

2015 second-round Jordan Richards says hi.

Rohrwasser was a doozy

Still annoyed he took Zappe over Howell.

 

[Hyped]

Never had a problem paying? Gronk and Brady both left because Bill wanted them to continue playing for less than their worth. They pulled the same crap with Thuney, who also went to another team and quickly got a ring. And if Miami wins the SB Gilmore will make it 4 for 4.

It's no surprise that getting rid of all that talent in just the last few years has made the Pats a cellar dweller.

Not true. Check your math.

Gronk left because he was beat up and tired of being coached hard.

Brady left because he saw greener pastures elsewhere (i.e. Evans, Godwin, solid D, etc...).

Thuney left because the Chiefs made him the HIGHEST paid interior lineman. He is now still the 5th highest paid guard in the league...mid-way thru his 5 year deal. We will see what happens to Onwenu this off season. I am afraid something similar will happen.

 

[RIpats88]

Why is it so hard for fans to accept that multiple things can be true at the same time?

Mac can be totally broken and a horrible quarterback and at the same time our receivers can be bad.

It's like fans haven't noticed that throughout history there have been teams with bad QBs before and yet the "elite" receivers on their team still put up stats.

They can't explain why Bourne/Douglas are still putting up numbers despite Macs poor play while juju/parker/Thornton are not.

Hint, the reason is because the first 2 are good players. The bottom 3 are not. Our receivers have been past in separation since Brady was here. And bills only draft successes at receiver are Deion branch and Edelman. It's not a coincidence.

Is there a contingent of fans totally happy to roll back the same roster next year with a new QB and actually believe it's good enough? And compares to other modern NFL offense?

 

[cupofjoe1962]

I don’t know about anyone else’s, but I am petrified that Belichick will be making our top 3? Pick

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Why is it so hard for fans to accept that multiple things can be true at the same time?

Mac can be totally broken and a horrible quarterback and at the same time our receivers can be bad.

It's like fans haven't noticed that throughout history there have been teams with bad QBs before and yet the "elite" receivers on their team still put up stats.

They can't explain why Bourne/Douglas are still putting up numbers despite Macs poor play while juju/parker/Thornton are not.

Hint, the reason is because the first 2 are good players. The bottom 3 are not. Our receivers have been past in separation since Brady was here. And bills only draft successes at receiver are Deion branch and Edelman. It's not a coincidence.

Is there a contingent of fans totally happy to roll back the same roster next year with a new QB and actually believe it's good enough? And compares to other modern NFL offense?

No, we need a much better QB and receivers and that's just the tip of the iceberg on offense.

 

[Toofy]

I don’t know about anyone else’s, but I am petrified that Belichick will be making our top 3? Pick

If we as fans are so scared if bill making the pick don't you think kraft will be echoing same feelings.

Doubt if he will be given GM keys.

When vast majority were clamoring for George Pickens/ pierce bill took Thornton.

Similarly aj brown / deebo Samuel's were deemed perfect fit and they took Harry.

Bill should not be allowed to step foot during draft day in 2024.

 

[RIpats88]

Watching yesterday. I get guys are injured BUT

How did Bill build one of the absolute worst offenses in history?

Like it's just unfathomable that you can build a decent defense and then somehow the talent you have drafted and signed on offense is so bad you can't score anything for 3 weeks. Over 10pts

And the apparent delusion in foxboro that they thought this team could win the AFCE

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I don’t know about anyone else’s, but I am petrified that Belichick will be making our top 3? Pick

How would Kraft explain this to the fan base? He can't. It's five full years of no playoff victory. Three losing years. Defensive coordinators becoming offensive coaches to a young QB. Bad special teams play. Horrible receiver acquisitions. Drafts are being talked about in a negative manner all throughout the league

The biggest sin of all was watching your greatest player ever walk out the door and immediately play at an elite level. Which included: A SB win, near conference title game appearance, MVP type year etc. All the while doing it with one of the worst franchises in NFL history.

 

[archstanton543]

How did Bill build one of the absolute worst offenses in history?

By ignoring that side of the ball in the draft or whiffing badly when they do draft offensive players.

They keep operating like they have Tom Brady behind center and they don't have that kind of generational talent there to mask their value picks.

 

[Real fan 02]

By ignoring that side of the ball in the draft or whiffing badly when they do draft offensive players.

They keep operating like they have Tom Brady behind center and they don't have that kind of generational talent there to mask their value picks.

Absolutely correct! Every team has misses. But go figure during the winning we had multiple years picking in the 1st round and have blundered them. Brady should have an owners stake in the organization.

 

[RIpats88]

By ignoring that side of the ball in the draft or whiffing badly when they do draft offensive players.

They keep operating like they have Tom Brady behind center and they don't have that kind of generational talent there to mask their value picks.

That's pure arrogance though to not recognize that the approach to roster building has to change. Then again this the same coaching staff who pushed Brady out the door believing "anyone" could run their system.

It's the complete disregard for offense that has me out on Bill as a GM. You watch teams all over the league building explosive offenses. And we just ignore that side of the ball and sign parker/juju and act like it's good enough

 

[captain stone]

No, we need a much better QB and receivers and that's just the tip of the iceberg on offense.

Yep, and the top of the tip is needing a much better GM.

 

[PatsFan2]

That's pure arrogance though to not recognize that the approach to roster building has to change. Then again this the same coaching staff who pushed Brady out the door believing "anyone" could run their system.

It's the complete disregard for offense that has me out on Bill as a GM. You watch teams all over the league building explosive offenses. And we just ignore that side of the ball and sign parker/juju and act like it's good enough

I am sure Brady is doing this in private.

 

[Steve102]

Not true. Check your math.

Gronk left because he was beat up and tired of being coached hard.

Brady left because he saw greener pastures elsewhere (i.e. Evans, Godwin, solid D, etc...).

Thuney left because the Chiefs made him the HIGHEST paid interior lineman. He is now still the 5th highest paid guard in the league...mid-way thru his 5 year deal. We will see what happens to Onwenu this off season. I am afraid something similar will happen.

 

[lancerman]

Absolutely correct! Every team has misses. But go figure during the winning we had multiple years picking in the 1st round and have blundered them. Brady should have an owners stake in the organization.

Let's go a step further.

Since 2014, these were the Patriots offensive first round picks

-Wynn: an undersized lineman who immediately got injured and floundered out until they decided he wasn't worth keeping
-Sony Michel: was good for one year. Yeah he was important for a Super Bowl. But he was another guy that sort of fell off and we didn't keep longterm.
-N'Keal Harry: another player who immediately got injured and went on to be one of the biggest WR draft busts ever. after 3 years in New England, he went to Chicago and only played 7 games and was never a starter, got released and is just a practice squad guy in Minnesota
-Mac Jones: Bust QB who got worse every year.
-Cole Strange: Another lineman that is looking highly overrated and not worth where he was drafted, maybe it's early enough where he develops into something.

So we essentially got zero to very little value whenever we invested our top picks in offense. Sony was easily the only one that can be categorized as a hit and only because he was good for 5 or so games at the end of a year we won a title. In total he ended up being mediocre for where he was drafted.

Let's go to the second round since 2014

-Thuney: that worked out, but he's not here and we didn't pay him.
-Tyquan Thornton: A WR who is a clear bust that is barely productive.
-Jimmy Garoppolo: A back up QB who was only asked to start four games during his tenure here and got injured after a game and a half.

Okay let's go third round since 2014

-Jacoby Brissett: back up who played one game and got injured. He's a solid back up but he's a pick we got a single game of value for.
-Antonio Garcia: an offensive lineman who never played.
-Damian Harris: This was a hit. A strong hit as well. He produced and was our best RB for a few years. But again, we didn't keep him longterm
-Yodney Cajuste: a lineman who got constantly injured, barely played and was released.
-Devin Asiasi: LOL
-Dalton Keene: TROLOLOL


Okay so in the last decade, we made 14 picks on offense in the top 3 rounds. 8 were clear busts. Cole Strange is teetering on questionable for being a bust. 2 were back up QB's that combined for providing 4 games of value for the team and both got injured when they were asked to contribute a small amount. So you can't say we used high value picks on starters there. 3 were bonafide starters that hit with our top picks. That's a hit rate of 21% on offense with our picks in the first 100 spots of the draft.

Now let's look at the hits. Thuney who was a great lineman that contributed for years. Then two RB's who are low value positions, both of which we didn't extend beyond their rookie contract because we didn't find the value there. Good pick ups, but when 2 of your 3 hits in a decade are guys at the position that everyone can get value out of it and aren't viewed as longterm adds, it's kinda bad.