I still think that the 2011 draft sucked

[FredFromDartmouth]

I know a lot of us were dissapointed after the 2011 draft, and oddly enough, we were right. The draft was not a disaster, but the Patriots came into it with a ton of picks and a desperate need for a pass rushers but came away with a lot less than most of us expected. The strength of the draft was the pass rushers but somehow BB whiffed on them all.

Compare the Patriots draft with what the Ravens did. With practically half the draft ammunition, the Ravens came away with a starting CB in Jimmy Smith and a very talented WR in Torrey Smith. In addition they got six sacks from Pernell McPhee who they stole in the 5'th round. The Patriots needed a WR, CB, and pass rusher; they could have gotten all these guys but BB was whiffed.

Solder was good as befits his lofty position at 17. Although he is a moose, he had trouble with speed rushers.

Dowling has talent but came in with an injury history which does not work well with the hard surface at Gillette. He may turn out to be a great picks but it is still too early to tell. If McCourty returns to form and Ras-I can shake the injury bug, the Patriots will have found their outside anchors.

Shane Vereen was the Big Whiff. Instead of taking Torry Smith they took Vereen, an indecisive runner. BB should never ever be involved with WR and RB picks again; he got it right with Ridley but that is unusual for him.

 

[manxman2601]

I know a lot of us were dissapointed after the 2011 draft, and oddly enough, we were right. The draft was not a disaster, but the Patriots came into it with a ton of picks and a desperate need for a pass rushers but came away with a lot less than most of us expected. The strength of the draft was the pass rushers but somehow BB whiffed on them all.

Compare the Patriots draft with what the Ravens did. With practically half the draft ammunition, the Ravens came away with a starting CB in Jimmy Smith and a very talented WR in Torrey Smith. In addition they got six sacks from Pernell McPhee who they stole in the 5'th round. The Patriots needed a WR, CB, and pass rusher; they could have gotten all these guys but BB was whiffed.

Solder was good as befits his lofty position at 17. Although he is a moose, he had trouble with speed rushers.

Dowling has talent but came in with an injury history which does not work well with the hard surface at Gillette. He may turn out to be a great picks but it is still too early to tell. If McCourty returns to form and Ras-I can shake the injury bug, the Patriots will have found their outside anchors.

Shane Vereen was the Big Whiff. Instead of taking Torry Smith they took Vereen, an indecisive runner. BB should never ever be involved with WR and RB picks again; he got it right with Ridley but that is unusual for him.

You are aware that you don't draft players for just one year right?

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

You are aware that you don't draft players for just one year right?

Sure but I would feel a lot better about the future if the Patriots had Jimmy Smith and Torrey Smith and Pernell instead of what they got. The Patriots got some question marks and some tomato cans and some JAGs; a disappointing haul after entering the draft with all those picks and it was a draft loaded with pass rushers.

All this trading down is great but it does not make any sense if you muff the extra picks you get. And there have been a lot of muffs with the bonus picks....

 

[Big-T]

Solder - going to be protecting the franchise (Brady and then whoever will follow him) for the next decade

Dowling - looks good in man coverage, if he can stay healthy it's a good pick.

Vereen - Will be Faulk's replacement.

Ridley - Stop fumbling and will be a good runner.

Mallett - First round talent, BPA and has a chance to be Brady's replacement.

Cannon - First round talent but fell due to cancer, looked good playing tackle and will probably slide inside to guard.

Smith - Didn't make the roster,

Carter - Project, practice player of the week most weeks during the season, interesting prospect.

Williams - Strange pick at the time.

So it wasn't a bad draft at all, especially picking up Cannon late in the draft and if Carter can develop into anything then he could be a steal.

Jimmy Smith is/was a headcase so was never going to be drafted by the Patriots, Torrey Smith is a one trick pony who also has the dropsies, again not exactly someone who screams Patriots.

 

[UK_Pat37]

You can't put a grade on a draft until a good few years after it happened.

I was over joyed with the draft and expect Solder, Vereen, Ridley, Mallett, Cannon and Dowling to be solid hits.

You're calling these guys muffs after one year? When all these guys got on the field they looked like bonafide NFL players.

Heck if Mallett pans out this draft, like the 2010 class, this one will be exceptional. I think you expected too much after seeing the 2010 draft class excel like it did in year one. IMO drafts like that are exceptionally rare!

 

[Gronkandez]

Gillette doesn't have a hard surface. It's not like they play in the old Vet.

 

[Sfpat]

We all know that a Pats draft pick is a bust if he is not a pro-bowl starter three games into his career, which is why every draft by the Pats suck. Doesn't matter that the Pats are perennially a SB contending team.

 

[Wilfork#75]

While it is way too early to judge the 2011 draft, I still don't understand the back to back RB's. I don't like the idea of drafting any RB high, so to draft 2 in the top 75 picks doesn't make sense to me. Especially when neither guy projects to be a feature back, so 2 top 75 picks for role players at RB seems like poor value to me. RB's are a dime a dozen, and I don't see Ridley or Vereen being special enough to warrant those picks.

 

[UK_Pat37]

While it is way too early to judge the 2011 draft, I still don't understand the back to back RB's. I don't like the idea of drafting any RB high, so to draft 2 in the top 75 picks doesn't make sense to me. Especially when neither guy projects to be a feature back, so 2 top 75 picks for role players at RB seems like poor value to me. RB's are a dime a dozen, and I don't see Ridley or Vereen being special enough to warrant those picks.

The Pats don't use feature backs and many teams don't any more. The idea is to bring in 3, maybe even 4, guys who's different skill sets enable you to utilise them in different packages. Ideally your #1 guy wants to have a dual threat capability obviously so you don't become predictable when he's out there, but ideally this is the way teams go now.

Your Adrian Peterson's, your Arian Fosters...they all bow out of the league early. Feature backs have a short shelf life. The 'two back approach' is something many teams opt for now...it's much better than having that one guy.

I liked the picks....I was surprised by back-to-back ones, but I expected a RB to be taken reasonably high.

 

[Wilfork#75]

The Pats don't use feature backs and many teams don't any more. The idea is to bring in 3, maybe even 4, guys who's different skill sets enable you to utilise them in different packages. Ideally your #1 guy wants to have a dual threat capability obviously so you don't become predictable when he's out there, but ideally this is the way teams go now.

Your Adrian Peterson's, your Arian Fosters...they all bow out of the league early. Feature backs have a short shelf life. The 'two back approach' is something many teams opt for now...it's much better than having that one guy.

I liked the picks....I was surprised by back-to-back ones, but I expected a RB to be taken reasonably high.

I understand the RB by committee approach, and I think its a better system than relying on a single player like a Chris Johnson who could **** the bed and ruin your offense. But I think that devalues the positions, which is why I didn't like the amount of resources used on them. With this approach you are limiting each players time on the field, decreasing their importance. I would compare them to sub package players or a pass rushing specialist on defense. They have a limited role and limited playing time, but would BB draft a pass rushing specialist in the top 75?. I know its not a perfect comparison, but its kind of the way I look at RB's on this team. You wan't your best players on the field as much as possible, and your high picks should be your best players. I would have been fine if they used 1 high pick on a RB because it was a need, but I think using 2 was a waste of resources.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I understand the RB by committee approach, and I think its a better system than relying on a single player like a Chris Johnson who could **** the bed and ruin your offense. But I think that devalues the positions, which is why I didn't like the amount of resources used on them. With this approach you are limiting each players time on the field, decreasing their importance. I would compare them to sub package players or a pass rushing specialist on defense. They have a limited role and limited playing time, but would BB draft a pass rushing specialist in the top 75?. I know its not a perfect comparison, but its kind of the way I look at RB's on this team. You wan't your best players on the field as much as possible, and your high picks should be your best players. I would have been fine if they used 1 high pick on a RB because it was a need, but I think using 2 was a waste of resources.

I definitely see your point. I could understand one RB in the second round but back-to-back choices did surprise me as well...two very high picks to spend on a position we don';t really value an immense amount that highly.

I've learnt to let absolutely nothing amaze me when it comes to the Patriots and the draft. I spend so much time trying to predict what we will do and I'm almost always wrong...just like half of us HAHA

 

[Gronkandez]

I understand the RB by committee approach, and I think its a better system than relying on a single player like a Chris Johnson who could **** the bed and ruin your offense. But I think that devalues the positions, which is why I didn't like the amount of resources used on them. With this approach you are limiting each players time on the field, decreasing their importance. I would compare them to sub package players or a pass rushing specialist on defense. They have a limited role and limited playing time, but would BB draft a pass rushing specialist in the top 75?. I know its not a perfect comparison, but its kind of the way I look at RB's on this team. You wan't your best players on the field as much as possible, and your high picks should be your best players. I would have been fine if they used 1 high pick on a RB because it was a need, but I think using 2 was a waste of resources.

I don't get this. I think you're contradicting yourself. I don't like that idea in theory or in results. Mark Ingram was only 1st rounder and I have no interest in him. Much happier with how the Pats played it.

A lower 2nd and a high 3rd rounder isn't too high to draft RB's. It's important for the Pats to establish a running game and it's important to have depth since RB's always get hurt. Ridley and Vereen are very talented and very important pieces.

They could have drafted a J Cunningham, Taylor Price, McKenzie, Tate etc with those picks. Now that is a reason to complain.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I don't get this. I think you're contradicting yourself. I don't like that idea in theory or in results. Mark Ingram was only 1st rounder and I have no interest in him. Much happier with how the Pats played it.

A lower 2nd and a high 3rd rounder isn't too high to draft RB's. It's important for the Pats to establish a running game and it's important to have depth since RB's always get hurt. Ridley and Vereen are very talented and very important pieces.

They could have drafted a J Cunningham, Taylor Price, McKenzie, Tate etc with those picks. Now that is a reason to complain.

OK but what exactly has Vereen done to be considered a very talented and very important piece?

 

[Wilfork#75]

I don't get this. I think you're contradicting yourself. I don't like that idea in theory or in results. Mark Ingram was only 1st rounder and I have no interest in him. Much happier with how the Pats played it.

A lower 2nd and a high 3rd rounder isn't too high to draft RB's. It's important for the Pats to establish a running game and it's important to have depth since RB's always get hurt. Ridley and Vereen are very talented and very important pieces.

They could have drafted a J Cunningham, Taylor Price, McKenzie, Tate etc with those picks. Now that is a reason to complain.

For me, a high pick on a RB is top 3 rounds, especially for a RB by committee team. Its probably not a great choice of words, but my point was I could understand one of the RB picks in the top 75, but not both. And while depth is important at RB, you don't draft backups in the top 75. I wouldn't draft any RB in the first round for this team, unless they were a truly elite, top level talent.

On the other players you mentioned, they are all evaluation errors which has clearly been a problem of recent times. And for all we know Ridley and Vereen could join them (I certainly hope not), but those players should have no effect on the positions of picks going forward, they simply need to do a better job in their evaluations.

 

[Gronkandez]

OK but what exactly has Vereen done to be considered a very talented and very important piece?

In the NFL, nothing...yet. I liked his talent coming out of college.

Important b/c I don't think BJGE and his 4.8/40 speed will be back. And because when teams play Nickel and dare you to run and you can't make them pay then that really hurts your chances of winnning.

I think RB was a need. They lost or will lose F Taylor, S Morris, K Faulk and possibly BJGE. I think the Pats wanted to move on from BJGE as soon as they had guys ready to fill in.

 

[Off The Grid]

I'm pretty sure that there's nobody in the Galaxy who places less of a Premium on O Backs than I do, Brother Wilfork, though you're certainly giving me a run for my money!!

Even so, I was BEGGING for us to draft "Shaky" Shane Vereen with the 2nd Rounder, and ECSTATIC when we actually DID!! :rocker:

The 2011 O Back Class was insanely deep...And yet not a single one'f'm were of Vereen's caliber, in my view, most definitely and pointedly including Mark "2nd Best O Back in the Alabama BackField" Ingram, for whom I actually have great respect!!

O Backs ARE a Dime a Dozen, but I believe that Vereen will prove to be special.

IF...USED...CORRECTLY.

Stevan "You May Fire When Ready" Ridley, on the other hand, I was pissed off about...and of course have since been proven to be DEAD wrong about!! :rocker:

***

To Recap: As The Galaxy's Most Fanatical Tight End Advocate, my obsession with that position is many-fold, but above all it is because the Hybrid nature of the attendant Skill Set renders an Offense's intentions indecipherable.

That is an enormous Tactical Advantage.

As such, I believe a relative Premium on an Half Back that has the potential to be a devastating Runner and a truly dangerous Receiver ~ as I am convinced "Shaky" Shane Vereen can be ~ is fully warranted.

His type, you see, are not a dime a dozen.

 

[Ron Sellers]

In the NFL every team 'whiffs' on some draft picks; it's a crapshoot with about a 50-50 chance of any draftee still being with the team after two or three years.

The Ravens are one of the best teams in the NFL at evaluating talent, but they too have their share of misses - just like the Pats and everyone else does. You point out Pernell McPhee but don't mention the two players they selected prior to that, Tandon Doss and Chykie Brown. The previous year they used their first pick on Sergio Kindle, and based on the lofty standards many set her the next pick, Terrence Cody, would also probably be questioned.

As for disapproving the team trading down, don't forget if the Pats hadn't done that in the past then they wouldn't have four picks in the first two rounds this year.

That being said I do agree that taking running backs back-to-back (and using a 2nd round pick on one) was a head scratcher. However, with the uncertainty of the CBA RB was more of a position of need than WR was at that time; the Pats had no way of knowing at the time of the draft if BJGE would be an UFA or a RFA.

As for Dowling, I know many here have already given up on him but I think that's a bit premature. I too would have preferred somebody that could aid the pass rush, but at this point in time I wouldn't consider it to be an egregious error.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Don't get me wrong OTG, individually I like both guys and I've said that since the draft. I just didn't like both picks together, especially because I rate what BJGE gives us so highly. In an offensive focused NFL, possession is the key. And with Brady at QB, having a solid, although unspectacular RB who you know will not turn the ball over under any circumstances is like gold.

 

[manxman2601]

Don't get me wrong OTG, individually I like both guys and I've said that since the draft. I just didn't like both picks together, especially because I rate what BJGE gives us so highly. In an offensive focused NFL, possession is the key. And with Brady at QB, having a solid, although unspectacular RB who you know will not turn the ball over under any circumstances is like gold.

My impression is that BB didn't think that draftees would intergrate easily into offensive/defensive schemes because of the lockout and limited pre-season. The RB position is one of the easiest to get up to speed at, and that, along with the uncertainty at the position on the roster, drove double dipping at the position. The fact that they were back to back is fairly irrelevant, the board no doubt dictated that.

In fact, last year was probably the best draft to get the position sorted out, if we hadn't, we'd all be debating Lamar Miller, Doug Martin, David Wilson this year.

 

[DW Toys]

I know a lot of us were dissapointed after the 2011 draft, and oddly enough, we were right. The draft was not a disaster, but the Patriots came into it with a ton of picks and a desperate need for a pass rushers but came away with a lot less than most of us expected. The strength of the draft was the pass rushers but somehow BB whiffed on them all.

Compare the Patriots draft with what the Ravens did. With practically half the draft ammunition, the Ravens came away with a starting CB in Jimmy Smith and a very talented WR in Torrey Smith. In addition they got six sacks from Pernell McPhee who they stole in the 5'th round. The Patriots needed a WR, CB, and pass rusher; they could have gotten all these guys but BB was whiffed.

Solder was good as befits his lofty position at 17. Although he is a moose, he had trouble with speed rushers.

Dowling has talent but came in with an injury history which does not work well with the hard surface at Gillette. He may turn out to be a great picks but it is still too early to tell. If McCourty returns to form and Ras-I can shake the injury bug, the Patriots will have found their outside anchors.

Shane Vereen was the Big Whiff. Instead of taking Torry Smith they took Vereen, an indecisive runner. BB should never ever be involved with WR and RB picks again; he got it right with Ridley but that is unusual for him.

Have to mostly agree. His trading down stuff have been a mixed bag. He loves to coach up these fourth and fifth rounders. I am sorry, wouldn't an actual first round talent be easier on the mental anguish with less to teach? Is the theory if we draft four fifth rounders, one will come to the surface we hope? It has not worked. 2010 was an apparition for the choices and how they have turned out for the Pats in general over the last five years. 17% is the success rate of a total NFL draft class. But the higher the choice, the more likely over that 17% success rate.

It think the Pats Draft Day team outsmarts itself. "BB, Let's trade down....Ol' so and so will be there.!....Opps he's not!...Let's trade out to some cool guys in the fourth round and get another for the next year so we can trade out there as well."

No one will admit in the organization that they made some boo boos.... but some Koolaiders here will say that was well planned. Not buying.

They are mediocre, right in the middle, not the worst and certainly not the best as far as talent evaluators in the NFL Draft over that last five or six years although they have had the potential with the higher picks that they had, to have a better Team. Who can deny this?

It's like BB trading with the Eagles every year. Perhaps "Trading down is intriguing and let's see how it comes out" is the battle cry. He does not give a rats annal pore whether the "experts" think he was wise or not Draft day, not certainly us as fans. He has success and that taints this evaluation process, but if you look at it, BB is better at picking up experienced player trades and FAs who have made more of a difference to his yearly success. His Drafts are....mediocre.

The Experts are amused by his trades and therefor figure he is a Draft day genius. I don't think so. He has missed on more talent that could have helped today as Fred suggests, when he rolls the dice. I don't know if I agree with all your better Raven players, but there are some for sure he could have gotten.
DW Toys