Content Post Idle thoughts: Moral victory, or Lost opportunity....

[Pape]

How's that hindsight? Still 20-20?

hindsight? I think you need to re-read the definition of hindsight... if it happens in real time, its not hindsight, is it?

I have zero faith in Mac Jones' ability to lead this team to victory. He's yet to do it. He's never had a defining moment in the NFL, unless you consider a sack for an 8 yard loss a defining moment. Because that's all he given us.

 

[Ring 6]

Lost opportunity. They were the better team for 50 minutes tonight. Offense had 13 drives, incredible field position all day long, multiple opportunities in the 4th and couldn't pull it off. It's not like they "battled" or "showed toughness", they outclassed the Eagles for the vast majority of this game. They way it unfolded, they should have won it.

Actually they were the better team for 59 minutes and 50 seconds and lost due to 2 back to back turnovers.

 

[Rob0729]

While I get your point about the makeshift O-line, I don't think our tackles were a problem yesterday. But as for the rookie guards and devoting resources to that position, I doubt any team in the NFL has expended more draft capital on guards in the last 2 years. We've spent 4 picks on Cole Strange, Atonio Mafi, Chasen Hines and Sidy Sow. I'd say they've tried to address the position.

I will say the tackles seemed to hold up fairly well. I will say that for some reason, Trent Brown seems to consistently get away with moving what looks to be a half a second too soon though. Not sure how long that will last.

But they have invested in the guards spot, but still we have questions along the o-line. Investing draft picks doesn't mean fixing problems - see N'Keal Harry and Tyquan Thornton and the WR position.

 

[PP2]

hindsight? I think you need to re-read the definition of hindsight... if it happens in real time, its not hindsight, is it?

I have zero faith in Mac Jones' ability to lead this team to victory. He's yet to do it. He's never had a defining moment in the NFL, unless you consider a sack for an 8 yard loss a defining moment. Because that's all he given us.

He was one Boutte toe drag from a big comeback victory against a superbowl team.

 

[Ring 6]

Not all things considered... in the here and now, do you have any faith in Mac taking this team to the next level?

If the eagles are the most talented team in the league (i disagree, it's sf at the moment) then you see where we need to be, and we are miles from that...

Miles from that? Turnovers on back to back plays handed the Eagles 13 points.
Turnovers aside the Patriots outplayed the eagles pretty soundly. Fixing turnovers (Zeke had zero fumbles last year) isn’t miles to make up.

 

[holyredeemer]

we have to make a decision about Mac Jones at the end of this season... we don't have the luxury of pretending it's year two...

100% agreed. An entire season was wasted on a 1st rd QB’s contract. Or, who knows? Maybe going through what he did last season will really benefit him in the long run. Idk. On the contract issue though, I know exactly how this is going to play out. There will be a few scenarios here.

1. Mac begins lighting it up and by midseason is a force to be reckoned with. Patriots have some decent offseason talks but find a way to secure a solid vet behind him and slap the 5th year option on him. By then the option will cost the team around 30M maybe a little more if it gets raised along with the cap limit. Not bad for a QB that’s lighting it up.

2. Mac has a solid year like the game we saw yesterday. Some very good moments, some that are poor. More good than bad. Bill goes out this offseason and acquires some cheap ass mediocre qb to compete with Mac. Doesn’t use the 5th year option and lets him test FA where some desperate team gives him much more than he’s worth to us.

3. Mac gets traded this offseason and Bill finds a way to bring in a savvy vet to start.

In every scenario I just don’t see BB the GM paying up right out the gates and handling the QB situation in a smooth way. Theres going to be a lot of uncertainty at the QB position over the mext few years and I’m not looking forward to it. I’d love for Mac to just grab that thing by the balls and own this team but he seems to have some serious mental/emotional hurdles to overcome. I tend to be a more negative than positive person though so we could slap him with 5th year and both sides could end up agreeing on a fair deal lol.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I don't have time right now to read this entire thread. ( I will review it later)
The headline indicates that some people are celebrating moral victories.

If our team is improving with their fundamentals and their overall execution, that's not a "moral victory".
That means that this team will be worth supporting and viewing.

 

[Pape]

He was one Boutte toe drag from a big comeback victory against a superbowl team.

what can i say besides the pass was incomplete. and we all knew it on the very first replay that was shown.

 

[RodThePat]

Except it's not his second year... it's his third season... despite the offense clusterhump that was last year's offensive experiment he still played, still faced those same exact situations... and is still coming up small in big spots... we have to make a decision about Mac Jones at the end of this season... we don't have the luxury of pretending it's year two...

The decision to pick up his fifth year option has already been made unless he completely implodes. At worst, Mac is a competent starting QB who puts in the work during the week, that's worth the 24 million or so the option will cost them. Now, in terms of an extension I agree he has a ton to prove, but they don't have to make a determination on that until March, 2026.

 

[holyredeemer]

Not all things considered... in the here and now, do you have any faith in Mac taking this team to the next level?

If the eagles are the most talented team in the league (i disagree, it's sf at the moment) then you see where we need to be, and we are miles from that...

I don’t have faith in Mac taking this team to the next level this season. It’s not because of Mac though, it’s because this offense is filled with middling talent. You’ve got 2 guys in Parker and TT that can’t stay healthy, 2 rookies who by all accounts appear to have a bright future but as evidenced yesterday have some growing pains ahead of them and a guy in JJSS that is not 100%. If he was, why did he play so few snaps? This team has got to go out and get at least 1 guy who can take a ball game over or at the very least present the threat of it. KB is a guy that comes to mind who would benefit the most.

 

[Pape]

Turnovers aside

except you can't "not count" the turnovers because it suits your narrative.

 

[holyredeemer]

1st quarter Mac had a lot of time to throw. I think the Eagles threw everyone back in coverage and rushed 4, but they couldn't get to him

The OL definitely played a lot better in the passing game than anticipated. Especially considering the fact they threw the ball over 50x. The D could’ve just pinned their ears back every play.

 

[Ghost of Autumn]

Game was infinitely more enjoyable than anything I remember from last season. Should be a fun year.

 

[holyredeemer]

Miles from that? Turnovers on back to back plays handed the Eagles 13 points.
Turnovers aside the Patriots outplayed the eagles pretty soundly. Fixing turnovers (Zeke had zero fumbles last year) isn’t miles to make up.

That rain at the beginning of the game seemed to really throw the team into a funk. They seemed unsure with the grass and the ball. Maybe they got all of the weird mistakes out of the way in game 1 and going forward they’ll be ready to rock.

 

[Ring 6]

except you can't "not count" the turnovers because it suits your narrative.

I’m not “not counting” turnovers, I am responding to your “miles away” narrative that cleaning up back to back turnovers (even one of the 2) is not miles away.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Mac was fine today but I saw the same QB I’ve seen for the past two seasons, which isn’t good enough to compete deep into the postseason.

Most certainly not a game where Jones covered himself in glory, although as I said, he was fine and others were also far from perfect.

Accurate, great touch throwing the ball … and that’s about it. Still has too many bad throws, questionable decisions, times where he crumbles in the pocket due to perceived (but not real) pressure, too many ducks that float, too inconsistent and unsteady. I don’t see someone who’s mentally tough, I don’t see a natural leader, I continue to see bad footwork, mechanics, too many fluttering passes, a lack of poise (particularly in critical game situations, which is troubling).

Basically, he’s a physically limited QB with inconsistent mechanics, poor ball velocity, and a lack of maturity/poise. He just seems too emotionally unsteady, often seems to be thinking too much. I was really hoping we’d see a more steady, grounded, focused Mac who looks physically, emotionally, and mentally matured/developed, with improved mechanics/ball velocity. To my eye, he looks more or less like the same goofy kid he was as a rookie, which won’t cut it.

It’s only week 1, but this is the season that will determine Mac’s future with the team and I didn’t see much indicating he’s taken a step forward in any regard.

I always said - back when the Brady/Manning debate was a thing - that Manning was the better pure passer but Brady is the better quarterback. There’s much more to to being a great quarterback than just passing the ball; intangibles, leadership, decision making, poise, mental toughness, judgment, ability to adapt, ability to play well in inclement weather, etc. I unfortunately get the vibe Mac is a Manning at this point; a uniquely talented pure passer of a football, but doesn’t demonstrate many traits that are critical to success beyond that.

You make some good points but fail at others. "Lacks poise"? Mac had much greater pocket awareness, moving around and even scrambling, including the 2 point conversion. The footwork was improved as well, but not a finished product, and Mac fails to throw the ball hard when needed. I am not sure why that is. Overall 65% passing and 3 TDs is a good day against a great DL. I think he can be better, let's hope Mac keeps growing.

 

[upstater1]

I will say the tackles seemed to hold up fairly well. I will say that for some reason, Trent Brown seems to consistently get away with moving what looks to be a half a second too soon though. Not sure how long that will last.

But they have invested in the guards spot, but still we have questions along the o-line. Investing draft picks doesn't mean fixing problems - see N'Keal Harry and Tyquan Thornton and the WR position.

Understood. But the only thing the GM can do is take the best players at that position when they come up, and then hope for the best. Obviously with Hines it didn't work. I would say that Hines maybe even has a chance of becoming the next Froholdt, a guy the Patriots gave up on who eventually becomes a decent starting guard in this league.

 

[upstater1]

You make some good points but fail at others. "Lacks poise"? Mac had much greater pocket awareness, moving around and even scrambling, including the 2 point conversion. The footwork was improved as well, but not a finished product, and Mac fails to throw the ball hard when needed. I am not sure why that is. Overall 65% passing and 3 TDs is a good day against a great DL. I think he can be better, let's hope Mac keeps growing.

I want to be in Mac's corner, and I see the positives of winning without a superstar QB. I believe it's possible. But Mac is indeed jittery back there. He doesn't seem comfortable.

 

[Thelonious]

We pretend to measure time, yet human experience tells us time is elastic. One advantage of being old -among all the creaky disadvantages - is that you gain a sense of the actual brevity of assertedly "long" periods of time, years, say, or football seasons. If a process takes a few years, old guys are not nearly as shocked and irked as young fellas. I think this team is a year or two away from completing its rebuild, and I judge what happens on that basis.

I think the "moral victory" thing has run its course. Reminds me of the recent bloated overextension of the eventually inane discussion re whether there has or has not been a "quarterback controversy." There was certainly a controversy over a possible controversy: I am sure of that, however controversial such a take might be. What happens in mass discussions such as those on PatsFans, let's say, is that the terms deployed in the discussion - "quarterback controversy," "moral victory" - get so abused and stretched and riven with pointless distinctions that the terms lose all meaning, and the "discussion" becomes mere yammering, a free-for-all p----g contest. Then the mod rules shift a little, a few policies get tweaked, accusations of trolling are tossed around (making THAT term meaningless as well, resulting in trolls trolling trolls) and life goes antically on, thank goodness. I myself loves me a good p------g contest, tbh, so I'm fine with it all.

The point of all this meandering prolegomena (for the ever-dwindling number of Kant fans out there)) is that I think the Pats are a year or two away from completing a major rebuild. Uncertainties are to be expected, as are losses. I don't know if they achieved a "moral victory," but I did see some real progress, and most of the surprises in this game were on the positive side, weren't they? So I'd say that for a team in the latter phases of a rebuild they are doing well. I think we should be content with this, particularly given what an asinine waste of time last season turned out to be.

 

[Pape]

I’m not “not counting” turnovers, I am responding to your “miles away” narrative that cleaning up back to back turnovers (even one of the 2) is not miles away.

they are part of what happened. They have to be factored into the game. They ran out to a 16 point advantage and never gave it up. It took us nearly two quarters to get our act together.