Content Post Idle thoughts: A new era.

[Mike the Brit]

Welcome back, Ken! I hope your health has improved.

 

[Kdo5]

Great post as always, PFK. I agree with your assessment about McDaniels. Part of me is probably coping with the thought that he is one of our only options but when I look at him it’s not a bad choice to have him as OC until proven otherwise.

That offense had had no talent on it for years. In 2020 we sucked but that was washed Cam Newton with young Jakobi Meyers and Damiere Byrd as your top receivers. I think Josh actually scraped something out of that group, or as much as he could.

In 2021 he did a really good job. We splurged in free agency but the talent was still pretty mediocre. I give him full credit for Mac having a good rookie season.

The offense didn’t go off the rails when Brady left, we just had a terrible QB in Cam Newton. The offense turned disastrous when McDaniels left.

We can do a lot worse than Josh returning.

 

[jimnance]

Welcome back, Ken.
A lot of the thoughts were idle here with you absent.
Our collective football IQ just went up bigtime

 

[Jlaff]

Hey @patfanken there was a thread about you when you were gone, not sure if you saw it. Lots of interesting discussion over all those pages:

PatFanKen Where Art Thou?

 

[Toofy]

I think the negativity is more because as a team majority portended the way season will turn out and it became worse. Now the fact that we are not even able to attract talent both across coaches as well as impending free agents without overpaying . On top if that we need to go back and resign our free agents on Oline when they were one of the worst units last year . Now we need to punt entire season on a rookie qb whom we are not too sure.

I have a feeling we will draft MHJ and go all out on Mac again and possibly get Pittman/ Higgins and sign aFA veteran for backup . If the qb fails we need to again draft a gamechanger. Foe now we need to get 2 - 3 pro bowl caliber players on our end and it's only judon, barmore an d gonzo for now.

I just feel they will draft MHJ considering all the unknowns . Daniels at 3 will not happen unless we trade down with chargers and are able to get him at 5 with an extra 2nd round pick .

 

[pctronics0072]

Welcome back Ken. You were missed.

Hey @patfanken there was a thread about you when you were gone, not sure if you saw it. Lots of interesting discussion over all those pages:

PatFanKen Where Art Thou?

I must have missed this thread. It was a real fun and interesting read. Glad to see ken get the recognition he deserves.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

1. Bill Bellicheck - Bill the coach is STILL an excellent HC.

Not according the guys who write checks to win football games.

You only had to see how hard the players kept playing and how close most of the games were with a subpar roster DESPITE the adversity of playing on a bad team. to clearly see that.

4-13. Plenty of teams play spoiler every year. They lost to other teams who were also out of playoff contention but were also “playing hard.” This is silly nonsense.

However , Bill has to also take the full responsibility FOR that subpar roster too. All teams go through a draft drought. In the end it;s a crap shoot and teams spent an enormous amount of time and money to lower those odds, and STILL pick more losers than winners. Most teams usually have 6-9 picks each year and their ideal outcome that they hope to get is 2 starters and 2 rotational players THAT's a great draft by any measure, EVERY team misses on about 50% of their picks and EVERY team bypasses guy who turn out to be great players elsewhere.

One pick is a crapshoot. One draft is somewhat of a crapshoot. 10 years of drafting is a track record, not a crapshoot.

2. Mac Jones. We broke Mac Jones. The universal wisdom is that Mac Jones sucks and the last 2 years are proof of that. But I cannot get out of my head the QB I saw back in 2001 who was smart, accurate and tough. The guy who had great numbers without a great supporting cast. The guy who NONE of us didn't think he had a great future going forward. THAT guy is still there and IMHO will be a capable NFL starter some day, but likely not here.

Who broke Mac? We? In your last two paragraphs you gave over the moon praise to Bill Belichick. This was his organization…more control than any other person in football. Bill was responsible for this **** show with Mac, inasmuch as these things really matter in QB success/failure.

 

[mgteich]

Not according the guys who write checks to win football games.

4-13. Plenty of teams play spoiler every year. They lost to other teams who were also out of playoff contention but were also “playing hard.” This is silly nonsense.

One pick is a crapshoot. One draft is somewhat of a crapshoot. 10 years of drafting is a track record, not a crapshoot.

Who broke Mac? We? In your last two paragraphs you gave over the moon praise to Bill Belichick. This was his organization…more control than any other person in football. Bill was responsible for this **** show with Mac, inasmuch as these things really matter in QB success/failure.

I support your notion that we cannot blame the team for breaking Mac without blaming Belichick,

 

[venecol]

the board had become so negative and predictable.

Welcome back, Ken. Thing is everyone that was being negative was 100% correct and all the homers were dead wrong.

1. Bill Bellicheck - Bill the coach is STILL an excellent HC.

That no team wants to hire? Maybe that 4-13 record doesn't need excuses.

In conclusion, I believe Bill is the GOAT HC in the NFL.

His time has passed.

2. Mac Jones. We broke Mac Jones. The universal wisdom is that Mac Jones sucks and the last 2 years are proof of that. But I cannot get out of my head the QB I saw back in 2001 who was smart, accurate and tough. The guy who had great numbers without a great supporting cast. The guy who NONE of us didn't think he had a great future going forward. THAT guy is still there and IMHO will be a capable NFL starter some day, but likely not here.

Mac Jones broke Mac Jones. Crying on the bench after a loss is not tough.

However there are a few scenarios where I can see him being on the roster nextt season. So even if we draft a QB at #3m, IF Mac has a good camp, he could end up being that quality back up. In an ideal situation, Mac gets a chance to show he is the guy he was in 2021 and we can get a decent pick or player for him.

Hell no. Enough of defending Jones. Dude sucks. Nobody wants to see Jones again.

4. FA's to sign in Feburary

The first thing we have to realize is that we are not the FA destination that we have been the last 25 years. We have a rookie HC, a losing season, and a LOT of holes to fill.

We should wait and see. There's a possibility that Mayo can attract some players. Funny that when we questioned the talent on the team, the homers told us we were all crazy.

So if we want to sign any February FA's we are going to have do overpay.

Mayo said we spending cash 1000%.

Unfortunately this isn't a great OT FA class and I have mixed feelings about Trent. He's great when he plays and is motivated, but he is a guy who seems to play when he feels like it. I'm not sure I want that kind of selfish guy on my team. But maybe Mayo HAS a connection to him that will get to be the guy we saw in 2018 again.

Agree. We need to try cause there's no one else.

On the offensive side I'm wondering if we aren't better off just rebuilding it through the draft. Kurt Cousins would be a great draw, but he isn't going to a rebuilding team. Maybe guys like Tannehill, Mariota, Minchew or TTaylor would come in for a couple of years and improve their markets while we develop a young raw QB like Daniels or Maye and be a mentor. I'd be OK with that plan if QB is what we are going to go with in the draft.

No on any of those guys. But we really need an OC before we can decide the QB.

WR's - Obiviously a big need. I'm kind of intregued by guys like Reagor and Boute. I think at least one of them will develop into an NFL starting WR.

Boutte is a gamble.

In the draft I hope we get a day 2 WR, as we have seen in past year always finds good WR's all through the draft. Nacua being this year's example as well a Douglas in the 6th. And who knows the 3rd year MIGHT be the year Thornton turns the corner.

Need Tackles remember. Thornton's a bust.

The case for Josh McDaniels as OC - Clearly Josh failed as a HC. He's just not a good enough leader to run an entire operation. BUT he has proven he could run a very effective offense in an area Mayo doesn't have. We all know that we learn the most from our failures, so Josh can help Mayo avoid pitfalls of being a HC that he didn't. He brings the same kind of addition LA made when they Hired Phillips who was also a failed HC Josh wouldn't be the first great OC who didn't cut it as a HC. Well we are not looking for a HC, but we need an EXPERIENCED OC. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I really don't want to see Josh back for what is it, the 3rd time?

6, The draft - Looking at the draft based on talent alone all of the top 3 guys are great prospects, but it is my belief that only Caleb Williams is truly ready to be a day one starter in 2024. Maye and Daniels both would best be served by sitting for a year and both will be worth the wait. I think this will be essential because it WILL take 2 drafts to solidify both the OL TE and receiver situations. Maybe it will happen sooner but conservitively I'm thinking 2. With a good draft and a few hits in FA we COULD contend for a playoff bid, but to compete for a championship it will take 2 years.

Championship in 2 years?

But the key to ANY draft are the hits you make after the first day. I can't help thinking that there is at LEAST a 33% chance that we pick the QB who fails because one of them will if history has anything to say. That is just the way it is. If Daniels is there, I'd take him because he has the highest upside for any of top QB's. If its Maye I'm a little less sure. Otherwise I wouldn't mind a trade down up to seven or eight spots which will likely get you a top 2 or 3 LT and add a few picks in a year you need them.

W/o a QB, how do you plan on getting to a Championship in 2 yrs?

7. We know the Pats offered deals to Steve and his brother, but it will be likely they join their dad. But Bill doesn't have a job and I think there are only 3 jobs still open. I think BOTH brother would be better served by staying.

Mayo HAS interviewed a few DC candidates, but the time to build a staff is NOW! I hope the Bellichick brothers have a time limit and I hope it ends by the end of this month/ IMHO the 2 most important positions that need to be filled right bow are the OC and QB coach position because it could be likely that whether it by the draft or FA, there will likely be a new QB room next year (even though I hope they at lease allow Mac to compete in TC as the #3 to who gets drafted or who they bring in.)

It sounds like you're basically suggesting we proceed with Mac Jones and draft a QB next season. I'm not liking that plan.

 

[mgteich]

.

We should wait and see. There's a possibility that Mayo can attract some players. Funny that when we questioned the talent on the team, the homers told us we were all crazy.

No one said that we don't need talent. We have lots of unsigned free agents and no quarterbacks or #1 receiver.

We also said that we could sign our own free agents (or near replacements) and be competitive with the addition of NFL level play from our QB's.

We all agree that we needed to sign a free agent in addition to re-signing Bourne.

 

[DarrylS]

Glad to see you back, your insight was missed.
Couple of thoughts about what seems to be a time lag in naming OC & DC, perhaps they are working out contracts at this point.. as the delays seems somewhat extraordinary and many have passed us by.
As much as the ship has sailed on Mac Jones, it seems as though the instability of the O may have helped his demise. I wonder if he was under the tutelage of another O Coordinator/QB coach would make a difference.
Did not read every word but aside from a new QB & O-line, I seldom see the need for a TE mentioned as well as a pass catching RB.. those years of Gronk & White/Faulk hid a lot of WR deficits. Now guys like Kittle, Kelce and many other TE's make any offense more formidable.

 

[FCB02062]

strong disagree. if Belichick is the greatest coach of all time, why is his record way below .500 when you examine his record without Tom Brady? Andy Reid won without Mahomes, Shula won without Marino, Parcells won with multiple qbs, Landry won before/after Staubach, Jimmy Johnson won SBs in Dallas and then went to the playoffs 3 straight years w Miami (and won 2 games)...Bill Belichick is absolutely nothing but a good defensive coordinator without Tom Brady.
Please, I'd love all the IBWT idiots to wax poetic about his record setting Cleveland stint....and how about that electrifying 29-39 period post Brady?
I'm all ears....

 

[VrabelJr]

strong disagree. if Belichick is the greatest coach of all time, why is his record way below .500 when you examine his record without Tom Brady? Andy Reid won without Mahomes, Shula won without Marino, Parcells won with multiple qbs, Landry won before/after Staubach, Jimmy Johnson won SBs in Dallas and then went to the playoffs 3 straight years w Miami (and won 2 games)...Bill Belichick is absolutely nothing but a good defensive coordinator without Tom Brady.
Please, I'd love all the IBWT idiots to wax poetic about his record setting Cleveland stint....and how about that electrifying 29-39 period post Brady?
I'm all ears....

You’re exactly the kind of dude PFK calls out as annoyingly negative. Go take your desires for an overly simplistic answer to why BB had a bad record post Brady else where.

 

[VJCPatriot]

A lot to discuss here. But let's talk about a few of the points that you made.

1. Bill Bellicheck - Bill the coach is STILL an excellent HC. You only had to see how hard the players kept playing and how close most of the games were with a subpar roster DESPITE the adversity of playing on a bad team. to clearly see that. However , Bill has to also take the full responsibility FOR that subpar roster too.

This is why the team declined and culminated in the disastrous 4-13 season. It was an accumulation of poor drafting and free agency decisions by Belichick eventually running our offense into the ground due to the sheer lack of talent. It didn't help that BB undermined the BOB hiring by not allowing him to pick his own offensive staff.

Make no mistake about it Bill can STILL coach and game plane at an elite level. But I have come to terms with him leaving because of the drafting, player acquisitions, and staff mistakes have become too obvious to overlook. I would have been OK to keep him, IF he was agreeable to giving up his final say on the draft and FA decisions and having a GM. I believe that's the issue that is holding up him getting another job.

Nobody disputed BB's ability to coach, scheme, and gameplan from a defensive point of view. But he had such contempt for the offense and neglected it so egregiously that even when his defense only gave up a grand total of 26 points in 3 games, 10 points, 10 points, and 6 points respectively, the Patriots still lost ALL THREE of those games. That was simply inexcusable. The defensive players were so demoralized that one of them even said something along the lines of, "We feel like we need to pitch a shutout to win."

2. Mac Jones. We broke Mac Jones. The universal wisdom is that Mac Jones sucks and the last 2 years are proof of that. But I cannot get out of my head the QB I saw back in 2001 who was smart, accurate and tough. The guy who had great numbers without a great supporting cast. The guy who NONE of us didn't think he had a great future going forward. THAT guy is still there and IMHO will be a capable NFL starter some day, but likely not here.

"We" did not break Mac Jones. That's all on BB. He was the one who decided it would be best for his young QB's development to hire the absolute failures who were Matt Patricia and Joe Judge to be OC and QB coach respectively. We saw him at his worst in 2023. He was making off balanced throws off his backfoot for interceptions and feeling phantom pressure at other times. Mac Jones is thoroughly broken and it would be best for his future and mental health if he sought a change of environment.

The WR group looks decent, but our current QB situation again doesn't make us a destination for any true #1 WR's

Saying that our WR group looks decent is like saying a one legged, carnival lady, with her front teeth missing looks attractive after you've downed two bottles of whiskey back to back and had no water to drink. This WR group is awful. There's no WR1. Juju Schuster-Smith is one of the worst free agent signings in years. Tyquan Thornton looks like a bust on the level of N'Keal Harry. The only guys that look decent are Bourne who could be a decent #2 if we get a proper #1 to free him up and Pop Douglas who looks like he can become a decent #3 slot receiver if he can stay healthy and is given the opportunities to shine in the right scheme.

Giving up on getting a #1 WR before free agency even begins? How do you make yourself a WR destination? You PAY them money to make yourselves that destination. It's very simple. The Patriots have been allergic to paying for premium WR's under BB's management, now he's gone. It's time to FLIP that script and sign a bona fide #1 WR. There are actually a handful of candidates on the market in THIS upcoming free agent class and we have the 4th most cap space in the market so how about we go out and get that WR1? Thankfully Mayo seems more enthusiastic about 'burning some cash' to make that happen.

The case for Josh McDaniels as OC - Clearly Josh failed as a HC. He's just not a good enough leader to run an entire operation. BUT he has proven he could run a very effective offense in an area Mayo doesn't have. We all know that we learn the most from our failures, so Josh can help Mayo avoid pitfalls of being a HC that he didn't. He brings the same kind of addition LA made when they Hired Phillips who was also a failed HC Josh wouldn't be the first great OC who didn't cut it as a HC. Well we are not looking for a HC, but we need an EXPERIENCED OC. Seems like a no brainer to me.

It looks like Mayo is searching for candidates to pioneer a new style of offense in New England. I see why he would want to avoid just going with retreads. Josh McDaniels had his time to shine in New England and he had a certain TB12 help his offense look genius level at times. But looking back at it, the very complex system that he ran, although it made it harder for defenses to prepare against, it also made it hard for WRs to fit into the system and execute it. We needed very specific types, and even bona fide NFL talents like Chad Johnson failed to adapt. Maybe we need a different offensive system that is more friendly for WRs and QBs to pick up and learn.

6, The draft - Looking at the draft based on talent alone all of the top 3 guys are great prospects, but it is my belief that only Caleb Williams is truly ready to be a day one starter in 2024. Maye and Daniels both would best be served by sitting for a year and both will be worth the wait. I think this will be essential because it WILL take 2 drafts to solidify both the OL TE and receiver situations. Maybe it will happen sooner but conservitively I'm thinking 2. With a good draft and a few hits in FA we COULD contend for a playoff bid, but to compete for a championship it will take 2 years.

2 years is a reasonable turnaround time table. You need to get the key pieces in place and then you need a few finishing pieces to really compete. This team has been so depleted by BB's negligent stewardship of the talent, that yes it might take two years. But the first year is still crucial. You've got to lay down the foundation pieces before you can add on the additional pieces. The good news is that teams have turned around quickly when they have had good rebuild plans then and made the right moves. Just look at the Houston Texans - flipping around a 3-13 season to 10-7 and getting a playoff win in just 1 year's time. I'd be satisfied with a 2 year turnaround but we need to see positive signs of improvements from year to year.

But the key to ANY draft are the hits you make after the first day. I can't help thinking that there is at LEAST a 33% chance that we pick the QB who fails because one of them will if history has anything to say. That is just the way it is. If Daniels is there, I'd take him because he has the highest upside for any of top QB's. If its Maye I'm a little less sure. Too many Zach Wilson comparisons at THIS point. But Wilson's problems are not in his ability but in his head. If I'm REALLY confident with the mental side of Maye I guess I'd take him. Otherwise I wouldn't mind a trade down up to seven or eight spots which will likely get you a top 2 or 3 LT and add a few picks in a year you need them. I've use that 11 number because I read that this year there are 11 "sure fire" picks worthy to be in the top 11. I want one of those guys. BTW, can anyone tell me what happened to make us picking at the bottom of the 3rd rather than the top?

Jayden Daniels or Drake Maye. Both exciting choices. Maye could be the 'safer pick' due to his more classic pocket passing style, big size at 6'4 230, with a strong arm, he has been compared favorably with Justin Herbert. But Jayden Daniels is just a different beast. He's a freak of an athlete who is a threat both on the ground and in the air. The 2023 Heisman trophy winner could bring a lot of excitement to New England's offense. Of course Marvin Harrison Jr. is also a viable choice at #3. But most likely we go with the QB based on Mayo's statement to the press.

It feels really hard to pass on top tier talent when as a franchise you rarely get that opportunity at such a rarefied pick. Let's say you pass on the next Herbert or Lamar Jackson, but you draft a solid OT. You're still missing the KEY piece to turn around your franchise and will likely have to give up a LOT of draft capital the next year to move up for a top QB. Sooner or later you need to be brave and just bite the bullet. You miss 100% of the swings that you don't take.

 

[FCB02062]

You’re exactly the kind of dude PFK calls out as annoyingly negative. Go take your desires for an overly simplistic answer to why BB had a bad record post Brady else where.

so stating facts is negative...gotcha...in 4 years post Brady Bill was 29-39. that is a fact and facts don't care about your feelings

 

[venecol]

I just think Judon will want too much money, which might hinder into our ability to acquire FA's that would help us more both next season and over the next few years. But, I do understand where you're coming from.

Judon isn't an UFA.

 

[PF_SU]

If people are fancying some context-less "facts" about these other HOF coaches, how about these:

• Don Shula missed the playoffs in 6 of 13 seasons with Dan Marino. Including 4 straight years of missing the playoffs in Marino's prime.
• Jimmy Johnson's Miami stint with Dan Marino featured playoff losses of 38-3 against the Broncos in 1998 and 62-7 against the Jaguars in 1999 (his and Marino's final game).
• Andy Reid was 1-4 in NFCCG with Donovan McNabb, including two home losses against the Bucs and Panthers in which his offense only mustered 10 and 3 points respectively.

 

[patfanken]

Nobody disputed BB's ability to coach, scheme, and gameplan from a defensive point of view. But he had such contempt for the offense and neglected it so egregiously that even when his defense only gave up a grand total of 26 points in 3 games, 10 points, 10 points, and 6 points respectively, the Patriots still lost ALL THREE of those games. That was simply inexcusable. The defensive players were so demoralized that one of them even said something along the lines of, "We feel like we need to pitch a shutout to win."

It is a complete overstatement to say Bill had "contempt for the offense" We consistently had a top 10 offense and it WASN'T just because we had Tom Brady. And he didn't neglect it. Just look at how many first round picks in this decade were on the offensive side. IIRC last season was he first one this decade where we DIDN'T go offensive with our first pick

You can feel free to question the results of those picks, but you cannot say he was neglecting the offensive side - Weren't most of our top FA picks in that 2021 FA class on the offensive side of the ball?

We" did not break Mac Jones. That's all on BB. He was the one who decided it would be best for his young QB's development to hire the absolute failures who were Matt Patricia and Joe Judge to be OC and QB coach respectively. We saw him at his worst in 2023. He was making off balanced throws off his backfoot for interceptions and feeling phantom pressure at other times. Mac Jones is thoroughly broken and it would be best for his future and mental health if he sought a change of environment.

Don't let you Bellichick rage run to the pedantic. It was clear I was talking about the Pats when I said "We" Mac, like every QB need good coaching and continuity to grow. Mac never got that except in that first year. AND that is Bill's fault. No question.

Maybe the answer for both our current and future QB's is to get a guy who has a proven record in working with young QB's and being a very creative OC. Josh McDaniels anyone?

Saying that our WR group looks decent is like saying a one legged, carnival lady, with her front teeth missing looks attractive after you've downed two bottles of whiskey back to back and had no water to drink. This WR group is awful. There's no WR1. Juju Schuster-Smith is one of the worst free agent signings in years. Tyquan Thornton looks like a bust on the level of N'Keal Harry. The only guys that look decent are Bourne who could be a decent #2 if we get a proper #1 to free him up and Pop Douglas who looks like he can become a decent #3 slot receiver if he can stay healthy and is given the opportunities to shine in the right scheme

Yeah I might have overstated that one.....by a LOT.

Giving up on getting a #1 WR before free agency even begins? How do you make yourself a WR destination? You PAY them money to make yourselves that destination. It's very simple. The Patriots have been allergic to paying for premium WR's under BB's management, now he's gone. It's time to FLIP that script and sign a bona fide #1 WR. There are actually a handful of candidates on the market in THIS upcoming free agent class and we have the 4th most cap space in the market so how about we go out and get that WR1? Thankfully Mayo seems more enthusiastic about 'burning some cash' to make that happen.

Yeah, pretty much. Listen ALL those top FA WR's are going to get offers that will set them up for life with the signing bonus from teams who at least you KNOW who the QB will be. That is NOT here. Or at least they have an established and effective OL. Well we might end up with one by the end of the day, but on the day FA starts, that is NOT here We got our share of top FA's every now and again because of Bill, the Patriot Way, and mostly about knowing you were going to the playoffs and half the time to the Superbowl. That is NOT here now. And believe me, top talent iisn't coming here because Foxboro Common is quaint and the "wild "night life of Boston or Providence.

This is not to say we shouldn't they to bring in a FA WR, but maybe bring in a guy like KJ Osborn or Curtis Samuels.

It looks like Mayo is searching for candidates to pioneer a new style of offense in New England. I see why he would want to avoid just going with retreads. Josh McDaniels had his time to shine in New England and he had a certain TB12 help his offense look genius level at times. But looking back at it, the very complex system that he ran, although it made it harder for defenses to prepare against, it also made it hard for WRs to fit into the system and execute it. We needed very specific types, and even bona fide NFL talents like Chad Johnson failed to adapt. Maybe we need a different offensive system that is more friendly for WRs and QBs to pick up and learn.

The RPO craze, like all crazes will come, peak, and then subside. They eventually get figured out. If you are old enough, a lot of this RPO stuff looks very much like the single wing offense that pretty much died by the early 50's. Not to say that aspects of the system won't remain.

But here is the thing. Yeah he was lucky to have Brady as his QB, but his game planning and scheming allowed Brady to find open receivers with very mediocre receiver talent (except the 2 Moss years).

I'm getting a bit tired hearing how Josh's offense is dated. It was just 2 seasons ago where mentored a rookie QB who threw for almost 4000 yds 22 TD's and a 67% completion rate and in an offense that averaged 27 ppg. So Josh has proven he can work with a young QB successful. Just look at the year he got out of Mac, a QB EVERYONE knows totally sucks (and yest that was meant to be mildly sarcastic)

2 years is a reasonable turnaround time table. You need to get the key pieces in place and then you need a few finishing pieces to really compete. This team has been so depleted by BB's negligent stewardship of the talent, that yes it might take two years. But the first year is still crucial. You've got to lay down the foundation pieces before you can add on the additional pieces. The good news is that teams have turned around quickly when they have had good rebuild plans then and made the right moves. Just look at the Houston Texans - flipping around a 3-13 season to 10-7 and getting a playoff win in just 1 year's time. I'd be satisfied with a 2 year turnaround but we need to see positive signs of improvements from year to year.

You lips to God's ear on 2 years, but its my prediction too. but remember the Texans have had multiple seasons of suckage this decade. There last 3 seasons before this one 3-14, 4-13, and 4-12 They have had 3 full years to pick in the top 5 of each round. That is a LOT of good talent and they did well. But can you image if we had to endure 2 more years like the last one here. Heads would explode.

Jayden Daniels or Drake Maye. Both exciting choices. Maye could be the 'safer pick' due to his more classic pocket passing style, big size at 6'4 230, with a strong arm, he has been compared favorably with Justin Herbert. But Jayden Daniels is just a different beast. He's a freak of an athlete who is a threat both on the ground and in the air. The 2023 Heisman trophy winner could bring a lot of excitement to New England's offense. Of course Marvin Harrison Jr. is also a viable choice at #3. But most likely we go with the QB based on Mayo's statement to the press.

FYI, there is a draft thread on the friont page and on page 17 someone sent me half hour break downs on all the top 5 QB's. I don't even know the guys name, but I watched the one on Nix and it was really good. You should check it out, in fact EVERYONE should check it out.

I was originally higher on Maye but at 6.6 and 230, maybe the better porential comparison is Josh Allen. Then I switched to hoping Daniels slipped through. His numbers were hard to dismiss. But then someone mentioned that Daniels has the dreaded "skinny legs" which makes be wonder abouthis durability. So put me in the "confused" collumn about which QB to go for. Again knowing that one of these 4 guys are likely to fail.

It feels really hard to pass on top tier talent when as a franchise you rarely get that opportunity at such a rarefied pick. Let's say you pass on the next Herbert or Lamar Jackson, but you draft a solid OT. You're still missing the KEY piece to turn around your franchise and will likely have to give up a LOT of draft capital the next year to move up for a top QB. Sooner or later you need to be brave and just bite the bullet. You miss 100% of the swings that you don't take.

 

[sturmrider]

Hi PatfanKen I hope your health issues have been solved for the moment and have to say I did miss your insightful idle thoughts posts. I am sure that many others here hope to see more of your posts in the future. In the meantime, take care and let's hope the Pats will be able to work their way forward from this recent low point.

 

[archstanton543]

The nitpickers and 2nd guessers can shout away the fact that literally had a GENERATION of great, competitive teams to root for. That CANNOT be wiped out by one horrible season.

The last 3 1/4 seasons have been horrible. They got blown out (no punts forced) in their one post-Brady playoff game.

Look, BB didn't get fired because of one bad season. The team has been trending downwards since the GOAT left. That's inevitable, sure. But the team has the worst offense in the league for two years running because of his GM and HC'ing decisions. It seems that the rest of the league is gun shy about hiring him because of that fact.

His legacy is secure. He's going to Canton, he's getting getting a statue outside Gillette. But to say that the last 4 years wipes out any of the rest of his career accomplishments is crazy. There aren't many people here or elsewhere saying that.