2009 Buffalo @ NE, Game 1 Breakdown

[captain stone]

...Caught Dean napping...

I daresy that it might be more difficult to catch Dean being awake...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

 

[captain stone]

I love those big emoticons, Mr. Box - even when they're directed at me.

Great stuff as always, too. I wish I could afford to send you to Bill's bunker for a beverage and a film session. I bet he would be quite impressed with your knowledge, esp. for a mere peon whom, like the rest of us peons, he would deem unworthy of his divulging the status of Mayo, as a for instance.

P.S.: Light & Koppen - Brady needs an upgrade from them, doesn't he really? And as for Mr. Peesbody - we need a young, aggressive DC now, more than ever.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I love those big emoticons, Mr. Box - even when they're directed at me.

Great stuff as always, too. I wish I could afford to send you to Bill's bunker for a beverage and a film session. I bet he would be quite impressed with your knowledge, esp. for a mere peon whom, like the rest of us peons, he would deem unworthy of his divulging the status of Mayo, as a for instance.

P.S.: Light & Koppen - Brady needs an upgrade from them, doesn't he really? And as for Mr. Peesbody - we need a young, aggressive DC now, more than ever.

I'm sure I could find some large emoticons for my buddy Capt. Downer, but I'm afraid you've misunderstood the "bump" used to get this thread off the bottom of page two.

I'm sure I'd greatly enjoy some film study with the coach - heck, I'd enjoy some film study with jays52, tripleoption, and about half this forum, but I'm a sucker for NE football.

Vollmer is in development to replace Light some day - some may see that as an upgrade, I'll be satisfied if he's as good as Light (Pro Bowl voting is still 2/3rd NFL Coaches and Players and he's made it twice). Koppen is solid, yeh, he's under fire more as teams try to get to Brady through the middle, but I'm excited about a healthy Mankins and Neal, and the efforts BB and Coach Scarnecchia are going to for depth inside. They may not have spent first and second round picks on players I liked in the last draft the way Buffalo did, but watching them in pre-season I'm eager to see how the new kids develop.

Coach Pees has my confidence, I'd just like to understand what his use of the 6-1 portends for the defense? You'll recall how BB did go with a young, aggressive DC in '05? I just think DP and BB have a vision for this defense we don't grasp - and with luck the NFL won't grasp until it's got them by the throat.

 

[bucky]

Coach Pees has my confidence, I'd just like to understand what his use of the 6-1 portends for the defense?

I'm with you there. Don't understand the 6-1 look. Don't understand why Guyton is lined up on the LOS. Although I have to say - if they had been in the 6-1 on the play Mayo got hurt, Guyton wouldn't have over-pursued the play and stepped on Mayo, thus injuring the elected "most irreplaceable Patriot not wearing #12".

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I swiped these chat Q & A's because they directly pertained to the Buffalo game and it's interesting to read Reiss in opinion mode and Graham is bringing an AFCE perspective from Florida and his closer proximity to the southern element of the division.

Chat: ESPNBoston chats Patriots-Jets - SportsNation - ESPN Boston

ESPNBoston chats Patriots

Mike Reiss will be here in a couple of minutes to get started!
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Tmerr (Tenn.)

The Patriots offensive look with 6 lineman against the Bills was an abomination. Does BB areally think this can work or is it in the trash can?

Mike Reiss (12:18 PM)

I think that was a game-plan specific, designed to wear down Aaron Schobel and set a wider edge. As we saw, Schobel is an excellent edge rusher. As for the results, this is what the Patriots did with six linemen on the field:* No gain on fourth-and-1* 8-yard run* Tripping penalty on Matt Light* 0-yard run* Completion to Randy Moss for 16 yards* 1-yard run* 1-yard TD run* Minus 3-yard run I didn't think it was all that bad.
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Scuba Owl (Lakey Lake)

Hey Mike, congrats on the new gig. So why is no one talking about the Pats secondary? As far as I could tell (and I was at the game) they shut down T.O.E. for most of the game, as well as Lee Evans, and didn't allow any big plays. What I saw was a combination of good coverage skills from Springs and Bodden and hard hitting from the safeties. Did I miss something, or is there just "too much negativity in this town?"

Mike Reiss (12:21 PM)

Thanks Scuba Owl. Great point about the secondary. I thought this was a great example of what Bill Belichick often says: "If you want to shut down one player, or one aspect of the game, you can. It's just how much you're willing to give up somewhere else." As I watched the game over, it looked to me like the safeties were playing in Wrentham and Walpole. That's how far down the field they were. The idea seemed to be to take away Evans/Owens and the big play, which left them a bit vulnerable underneath. Nice plan. Nice execution.
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Paul B (Greenfield)

I noticed that Matt Light was sent to the bench and Vollmer played LT for a couple of plays after Light's tripping penalty. Is it possible that Coach B is planning on rotating Vollmer in at LT occasionally?

Mike Reiss (12:26 PM)

I don't think so, Paul. What I think you saw what Light heading to the sideline because he was an eligible receiver on the play he was called for tripping. Because of that, he has to leave the field for one play before returning to the game as a non-eligible receiver.
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Juan Rodriguez (Cicero, illinois)

Don't you guys think that everyone is over reacting to how "poor" the patriots played monday night and how "lucky" they were to win the game? yes the bills moved the ball well sometimes but only came up with 17 offensive points and shut down the dangerous duo that is Terrel Owens and Lee Evans. Thats classic bend but don't break BB defense, especialy without our leader Jerod Mayo. Offensively we were a little rusty but Tom Brady's 2 minute offense is still the best in the league! your thoughts?

Mike Reiss (12:28 PM)

I don't think anyone believes it was the Patriots' best effort, but my personal belief is that at this time of year, you take the win and move on. I'd say the same thing about Denver. Doesn't matter how you get it at this point. If this was late December, then I'd put more stock in "style" points. Agree on the two-minute offense. Brady makes it look so easy. Any time you have No. 12, you have a chance.
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petededham (Dedham MA)

How do you guys think the Pats will handle the screen passes?

Mike Reiss (12:55 PM)

Petededham, I think they will be better on the short stuff this week than they were against the Bills, in part because the safeties won't be in another zip code.
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Patrick (Nashville)

How did you feel that the newly revamped secondary played against the Bills?

Tim Graham (1:36 PM)

They were fantastic. Any defense who wants a blueprint on how to eliminate Terrell Owens and Lee Evans from a game should put in a tape of that game. The Bills still almost won, but the Patriots forced them to execute almost perfectly to do it.
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Comic Book Guy (Springfield)

The call on Wilfork was horrible, but Adailus Thomas, cant' chuck the QB to the ground, there was no need....kind of dumb

Tim Graham (1:51 PM)

Again, I agree about Adalius Thomas. He gave the ref a decision to make, but the Bills were lucky to get the call. That was not a black-and-white foul in my eyes.
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Eric (Long Island NY)

just like the pats were lucky to get a late hit call on whitner when the defender wasnt even down yet...

Tim Graham (1:55 PM)

That wasn't a late hit, Eric. It was spearing, and it was the right call. Whitner lowered his head and hit the runner with the crown of his helmet. A textbook spear.
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Drew (Buffalo)

Can the Bills keep up the way they played against the Pats, or was that a one and done type of deal?

Tim Graham (2:00 PM)

A postgame quote from Trent Edwards keeps rattling around my brain. He said "We put all our eggs in one basket" for the Patriots. That comment, plus **** Jauron admitting they spent no time game planning for their preseason games, makes me wonder if the Bills had been gearing up months to prepare for that one game.
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[captain stone]

1) I'm sure I could find some large emoticons for my buddy Capt. Downer, but I'm afraid you've misunderstood the "bump" used to get this thread off the bottom of page two.

2) Coach Pees has my confidence, I'd just like to understand what his use of the 6-1 portends for the defense? You'll recall how BB did go with a young, aggressive DC in '05? I just think DP and BB have a vision for this defense we don't grasp - and with luck the NFL won't grasp until it's got them by the throat.

1) Now I get it, says the blind man.

2) I wouldn't consider ManJudas an aggressive DC; he was just a 10-year toadie who merely executed Bill's game plan, but offered no original thoughts himself, similar to Pees. This defense needs new, aggressive blood at DC; heck, even old, aggressive blood - **** LeBeau, the late Jim Johnson - would be an improvement. Too bad that Dom Capers left, while Mr. Peesbody stayed.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm with you there. Don't understand the 6-1 look. Don't understand why Guyton is lined up on the LOS. Although I have to say - if they had been in the 6-1 on the play Mayo got hurt, Guyton wouldn't have over-pursued the play and stepped on Mayo, thus injuring the elected "most irreplaceable Patriot not wearing #12".

Except the failure on that play only too clearly lay with Wilfork's breakdown at the point of attack, and it looked very much like Wilfork was the one who hit Mayo. Even if it was Guyton, he was driven into Mayo only after Wilfork lost his battle.

I was looking for a video clip I thought I saw on NFL Network of the injury, but I didn't see it when I reran the NFL Replay I taped and it isn't in the clips below, but I've linked these two clips from the Buffalo game in case any one missed them.

NFL Videos: WK 1 Playbook: Bills vs. Patriots breakdown
NFL Videos: Patriots 25, Bills 24

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

1) Now I get it, says the blind man.

2) I wouldn't consider ManJudas an aggressive DC; he was just a 10-year toadie who merely executed Bill's game plan, but offered no original thoughts himself, similar to Pees. This defense needs new, aggressive blood at DC; heck, even old, aggressive blood - **** LeBeau, the late Jim Johnson - would be an improvement. Too bad that Dom Capers left, while Mr. Peesbody stayed.

Well, I guess we can hope Bob Kraft dumps that lump Belichick and drafts Bill Cowher.

 

[bucky]

Except the failure on that play only too clearly lay with Wilfork's breakdown at the point of attack, and it looked very much like Wilfork was the one who hit Mayo. Even if it was Guyton, he was driven into Mayo only after Wilfork lost his battle.

I was looking for a video clip I thought I saw on NFL Network of the injury, but I didn't see it when I reran the NFL Replay I taped and it isn't in the clips below, but I've linked these two clips from the Buffalo game in case any one missed them.

NFL Videos: WK 1 Playbook: Bills vs. Patriots breakdown
NFL Videos: Patriots 25, Bills 24

Sure looks like Guyton steps on him, but you're right that Vince banged into his leg. Kind of hard to understand how you can sprain an MCL when someone steps on your foot.

Sill, no way Guyton should have been that close to him. He keyed off the back and over pursued. Completely didn't see the double team developing on Wilfork and the TE coming on the wham block.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sure looks like Guyton steps on him, but you're right that Vince banged into his leg. Kind of hard to understand how you can sprain an MCL when someone steps on your foot.

Sill, no way Guyton should have been that close to him. He keyed off the back and over pursued. Completely didn't see the double team developing on Wilfork and the TE coming on the wham block.

Yes, but Vince usually stands up to double-teams, if he held his ground Guyton would have been heading towards the developing rush lane, instead Vince is jacked back and Green blocked leaving an expressway for Jackson. If Guyton just stood there flat-footed we'd have groused, since the team was in 4-3 mode and he had no containment assignment, his job was to flow to the ball (at least that's how I interpreted the assignment for that play).

In the 3-4 I'd have said Guyton over-pursued leaving his backside/cutback containment. In the 4-3 alignment both MLB/WLB are hole pluggers, find a hole and stuff it with bodies - I know Indy has their LBs flowing to whichever gaps the DL aren't shooting, but if NE is playing a two-gap I'm assuming those two LBs are protected to focus on read & react.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Mike Reiss' blog - Sub packages by the Patriots' defense - ESPN Boston

 

[BradyManny]

Sure looks like Guyton steps on him, but you're right that Vince banged into his leg. Kind of hard to understand how you can sprain an MCL when someone steps on your foot.

It looked to me that it was the combination of the two - Vince bumping into his leg and Guyton stepping on his foot, combined to make his knee bend at an unnatural angle. It was just really, really bad luck.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Mike Reiss' blog - Morris used at fullback in opener - ESPN Boston

The issue wasn't Morris' blocking, he consistently did his job.

 

[bucky]

Yes, but Vince usually stands up to double-teams, if he held his ground Guyton would have been heading towards the developing rush lane, instead Vince is jacked back and Green blocked leaving an expressway for Jackson. If Guyton just stood there flat-footed we'd have groused, since the team was in 4-3 mode and he had no containment assignment, his job was to flow to the ball (at least that's how I interpreted the assignment for that play).

In the 3-4 I'd have said Guyton over-pursued leaving his backside/cutback containment. In the 4-3 alignment both MLB/WLB are hole pluggers, find a hole and stuff it with bodies - I know Indy has their LBs flowing to whichever gaps the DL aren't shooting, but if NE is playing a two-gap I'm assuming those two LBs are protected to focus on read & react.

I have to disagree here. The play is a counter, which means backfield (QB and RB) shows run in the opposite direction, but then the RB comes back to the play side. If you look at the blocking, the double team develops a little late and the H-back pulls and kicks out the DE. The play is designed to go off tackle - exactly where Guyton started. But he misread the keys (or perhaps he was keying strictly off the backfield, which IMO is a bad idea for LBs) and ended up flowing out of the hole. Vince definitely did not stand his ground very well either. The combination of the 2 created a huge hole on that play and an even bigger hole on the D for the next few weeks.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I have to disagree here. The play is a counter, which means backfield (QB and RB) shows run in the opposite direction, but then the RB comes back to the play side. If you look at the blocking, the double team develops a little late and the H-back pulls and kicks out the DE. The play is designed to go off tackle - exactly where Guyton started. But he misread the keys (or perhaps he was keying strictly off the backfield, which IMO is a bad idea for LBs) and ended up flowing out of the hole. Vince definitely did not stand his ground very well either. The combination of the 2 created a huge hole on that play and an even bigger hole on the D for the next few weeks.

Granted Guyton started inside, which as you say may have been biting on the misdirection, but he wasn't aggressive about crashing inside - he was under control and still reading - Buffalo did a very good job of taking advantage of their rookie TE's speed and smarts to not motion him until the snap so he didn't give anything away. If Vince had held up, Guyton would have recovered and either been at the hole or drawn the LT off the double-team freeing Vince to get back into the play against the single blocker (which we've seen him do often enough). Jackson may have gotten 4-5 yds off the play, but Vince getting jacked back turned it into the big gain.

 

[BritPat]

I've been following your thread over at Patsplanet, Box, any more on this? Can't wait to read about the second.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I've been following your thread over at Patsplanet, Box, any more on this? Can't wait to read about the second.

I may not get the second half done. Running simultaneous threads on the two sites gets interesting because you get more input and discussion going - like the discussion with Bucky here and the exchange with Hawg over there.

 

[BradyManny]

I may not get the second half done. Running simultaneous threads on the two sites gets interesting because you get more input and discussion going - like the discussion with Bucky here and the exchange with Hawg over there.

I get about through 1.5 quarters of note-taking and just watch the rest (still slow-mo'ing, just not writing anything down). I don't share my notes w the forum b/c effectively you and others do it much better, but basically, I can say just how tough the note-taking process can be on these things. It's quite fun to pay attention to the finer details of the game, but the actual process of writing all these details down is time-consuming.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I get about through 1.5 quarters of note-taking and just watch the rest (still slow-mo'ing, just not writing anything down). I don't share my notes w the forum b/c effectively you and others do it much better, but basically, I can say just how tough the note-taking process can be on these things. It's quite fun to pay attention to the finer details of the game, but the actual process of writing all these details down is time-consuming.

Yep, and you quickly learn that the majority of people who visit the site really have little interest in the nuts and bolts, they'd rather talk about Peter King.