But It's Not Mac's Fault....

[Thelonious]

It is funny. If this was say the Jets, we would all be laughing at how the Jets ruined Mac. Three coordinators in three years with one of them being a defensive minded coach. No one there to really develop him after year one. A crap o-line. No receivers.

But many of the same people who would have mocked the Jets like this, are putting all the blame on Mac.

Mac isn't just a victim here. He has regressed and his fundamentals have gone to crap and a lot of that is on him. But the Patriots have followed the playbook to a T on how to ruin a young QB.

This post really tells the tale. There is a tendency here to frame the issue as "Mac Lovers" vs. "Mac haters": a childish oversimplification in part the fruit of unwillingness to face that this team is deficient in nearly every area. Mac is probably not a good enough player that we should commit to him long term, but It is difficult to say with certainty whether this is so because of Mac's insurmountable limitations or because of the HC/GM's fireable incompetence in failing to build a decent team around him, and in failing to let go of his asinine and petty resentments, and of his compulsions - going back years - to deprive the team of players' services - even at the expense of losing a Super Bowl - to assuage his petty, butt-hurt resentments.

Given all this, I would:

1) Keep Mac another year as a sort of placeholder starter until whatever OB candidate we draft or trade for is able to beat him out.
2) Fire Bill the GM, relieving him of any role whatever - beyond such advice as in welcome from any HC, advice which the GM may value as he chooses.
3) The Krafts should convey privately to Bill that though he is welcome to stay another year as HC, it will be on a probationary basis, given his failings as HC.
4) I understand Bill is unlikely to accept such a role. I don't care. Though he is not the blatant failure as HC which he is as GM, the trends are not good: the game plans blow, the in-game adjustments are hit or miss, the team has lousy fundamentals, decisions as to which players are active on game day are inexplicable to the point of being toxic for team chemistry, and so on. If Bill will not accept being fired as GM and serving on a probationary basis as HC, I'm fine with that. Just look at this team. It's a mess, right?

(This has indeed "already been discussed," and it will be again. Dealing with a failed GM and a failing HC must be Job (and topic) One, particularly given that decisions re this team in years going forward are in the immediate offing, and we do not want a failed GM to play a central role in important roster/trade/draft decisions soon to be made.)

 

[PATS16N0]

San Diego is an example of a team wasting a quarterbacks theoretical talents and potential.

The Patriots are not.

 

[Triumph]

Being called stupid by someone like you shows I’m doing something right lmao.

I just tell like it is.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Plenty of blame to go around on this team. Maybe Mac could excel with weapons and a decent o-line. I think you need a mobile QB who can improvise when the play breaks down in today's NYFL. Howell thru on the run and under duress surprisingly well. Mac can't do that. Need to draft someone that can.

 

[Ring 6]

i'll just start with this one......two rushers bearing down, from around his left and up the middle, he could not step into this one

Rham thought it was an easy catch and was waiting with basket arms at his waist......if he high points that ball he might give up some YAC, but makes a huge chunk play.....instead he coasts and watches the defender instead make a great play

there's very few QBs i the league who can drill that throw off their back foot......and off the back foot was necessitated by the rush.....Rham has to finish that play and he did not

Why make an impossible throw?

 

[yukon cornelius]

Why make an impossible throw?

was it impossible? the ball was delivered a step or two short, the receiver made zero adjustment, and the defender made a solid play on the ball

Rham stood their waiting for it......if he high points that ball he makes the catch (unless he JuJu's it), and takes the defender out of the play

why make that throw? because Mac is gripping......he's in a ****ty, no win situation yet is still trying to win games, because that's who he is......not the best way to play, but he's pushing hard.......he's trying to overcome the lack of talent around him by making plays......at times it feels like only a few others on offense are putting in that level of commitment, honestly......the vet receivers especially seem to be playing out their contracts

 

[RodThePat]

Geno Smith says hello. The Jets ruined him. The Seahawks fixed him.

But people did say that about Darnold. And people said that about Sanchez. And people even said that about Wilson. Especially Wilson because a lot of his issues could have been coached out of him with a good coach and he has the physical talents to be elite if he was a smarter QB.

But people also said they sucked.

Geno Smith has been fixed all the way into being the 22nd ranked QB by EPA/Play even while surrounded by a great set of weapons.

 

[Tunescribe]

But it's not, there were receivers wide open and plays available to be made.

Our QB sucks. Three years of excuses has been plenty, we have our sample size.

If you can't first admit there's a problem, you can't hope to improve.

Mac stinks... stop with the excuses.

Mac has not yet distinguished himself as "the guy" worthy of a lucrative contract. BUT, some of what he gets blamed for is not his fault -- dropped balls, receivers quitting on routes, a musical chairs OL, etc. He has shown he can get the job done with proper support but is limited to that. The kid is what he is -- generally adequate but not a difference maker on his own.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Mac has not yet distinguished himself as "the guy" worthy of a lucrative contract. BUT, some of what he gets blamed for is not his fault -- dropped balls, receivers quitting on routes, a musical chairs OL, etc. He has shown he can get the job done with proper support but is limited to that. The kid is what he is -- generally adequate but not a difference maker on his own.

and what's killing him the most is he is TRYING to be that difference maker, and it seems very few of his 'weapons' are putting in that same level of effort.....WRs especially

 

[Ring 6]

was it impossible? the ball was delivered a step or two short, the receiver made zero adjustment, and the defender made a solid play on the ball

Rham stood their waiting for it......if he high points that ball he makes the catch (unless he JuJu's it), and takes the defender out of the play

why make that throw? because Mac is gripping......he's in a ****ty, no win situation yet is still trying to win games, because that's who he is......not the best way to play, but he's pushing hard.......he's trying to overcome the lack of talent around him by making plays......at times it feels like only a few others on offense are putting in that level of commitment, honestly......the vet receivers especially seem to be playing out their contracts

I’ll have to look at the play again, but if I remember correctly the defended knocked the ball away.
Asking a rb on a wheel route to stop, turn and “high point” a poor throw rather than acknowledge that both it was a poor choice and a poor throw.

How is he in a no win situation? If he played well they would have a winning record. He is the biggest problem.
But you think he should make bad decisions because that shows he’s trying? Come on.

There are plenty of open receivers out there that he misses or reacts too late to. He is by far the biggest problem with this team.

 

[Ring 6]

Mac has not yet distinguished himself as "the guy" worthy of a lucrative contract. BUT, some of what he gets blamed for is not his fault -- dropped balls, receivers quitting on routes, a musical chairs OL, etc. He has shown he can get the job done with proper support but is limited to that. The kid is what he is -- generally adequate but not a difference maker on his own.

When has he gotten the job done? I’m watching game after game of him playing poorly.

 

[Ring 6]

and what's killing him the most is he is TRYING to be that difference maker, and it seems very few of his 'weapons' are putting in that same level of effort.....WRs especially

How exactly is he doing that? By throwing dumb ints? By putting up 14 points a game.
Or are you just impressed that he goes out on the field and takes the snaps?

 

[sb1]

It's more of a what's in door number 3 (with a full week of starters reps and game planning catered to his strengths per MCassel's explanation of prepping as a backup vs as a starter). I mean obv Zap looked like crap in his 2 appearances in mop up duty, but there's just that curiosity. That being said, I'm sure BB doesn't want to go that route as 1) Mac has these brief moments of great play (that bomb to Reagor was perfect), and 2) doesn't want to get into a divided locker room like last year where some want either QB to start (although the locker room looks pretty lost now anyway). In retrospect, I wonder if BB would've ever switched to TB12 if Bledsoe didn't get injured.

If they want to build up Zappe's value for a trade this offseason then sure play him. It matters less I think now than it did a year ago, they're not going to make the playoffs. Also his value is zero as all teams passed on him when he was waived so maybe it would be good to build it up. Just find the takes that rip Mac but make the same excuses for Zappe that they accuse others are making for Mac weird....

We've had back and forths regarding Stiddy a couple of years ago, and you were clearly correct in that assessment, so it's the main reason why I don't really push it.

This may sound odd but I think the team as constructed right now might be a better fit for Stidham than it was. He has more seasoning than he did 2 years ago. Also has a very good arm and doesn't panic as much as I remember him.

 

[203Pat]

If they want to build up Zappe's value for a trade this offseason then sure play him. It matters less I think now than it did a year ago, they're not going to make the playoffs. Also his value is zero as all teams passed on him when he was waived so maybe it would be good to build it up. Just find the takes that rip Mac but make the same excuses for Zappe that they accuse others are making for Mac weird....

This may sound odd but I think the team as constructed right now might be a better fit for Stidham than it was. He has more seasoning than he did 2 years ago. Also has a very good arm and doesn't panic as much as I remember him.

Zappe has no trade value. He has been available for 31 teams to sign for peanuts multiple times the last couple months and no one wanted him.

 

[Thelonious]

This post really tells the tale. There is a tendency here to frame the issue as "Mac Lovers" vs. "Mac haters": a childish oversimplification in part the fruit of unwillingness to face that this team is deficient in nearly every area. Mac is probably not a good enough player that we should commit to him long term, but It is difficult to say with certainty whether this is so because of Mac's insurmountable limitations or because of the HC/GM's fireable incompetence in failing to build a decent team around him, and in failing to let go of his asinine and petty resentments, and of his compulsions - going back years - to deprive the team of players' services - even at the expense of losing a Super Bowl - to assuage his petty, butt-hurt resentments.

Given all this, I would:

1) Keep Mac another year as a sort of placeholder starter until whatever OB candidate we draft or trade for is able to beat him out.
2) Fire Bill the GM, relieving him of any role whatever - beyond such advice as in welcome from any HC, advice which the GM may value as he chooses.
3) The Krafts should convey privately to Bill that though he is welcome to stay another year as HC, it will be on a probationary basis, given his failings as HC.
4) I understand Bill is unlikely to accept such a role. I don't care. Though he is not the blatant failure as HC which he is as GM, the trends are not good: the game plans blow, the in-game adjustments are hit or miss, the team has lousy fundamentals, decisions as to which players are active on game day are inexplicable to the point of being toxic for team chemistry, and so on. If Bill will not accept being fired as GM and serving on a probationary basis as HC, I'm fine with that. Just look at this team. It's a mess, right?

(This has indeed "already been discussed," and it will be again. Dealing with a failed GM and a failing HC must be Job (and topic) One, particularly given that decisions re this team in years going forward are in the immediate offing, and we do not want a failed GM to play a central role in important roster/trade/draft decisions soon to be made.)

LOL re the emoji. We have already discussed that this has already been discussed. Next time I will discuss that the fact this has already been discussed has already been discussed and, given that I will discuss it again, we will inevitably discuss again that the fact it has already been discussed will inevitably cause it to be discussed again. We are facing a regression here, infinity bound. Aristotle, renowned Mac lover, would not be pleased.

 

[PatsFan2]

If they want to build up Zappe's value for a trade this offseason then sure play him. It matters less I think now than it did a year ago, they're not going to make the playoffs. Also his value is zero as all teams passed on him when he was waived so maybe it would be good to build it up. Just find the takes that rip Mac but make the same excuses for Zappe that they accuse others are making for Mac weird....

This may sound odd but I think the team as constructed right now might be a better fit for Stidham than it was. He has more seasoning than he did 2 years ago. Also has a very good arm and doesn't panic as much as I remember him.

Stiddy looked Decent with good Talent around him last year Better than Mac but almost anybody is.

 

[Ring 6]

Stiddy looked Decent with good Talent around him last year Better than Mac but almost anybody is.

Stidham would have over 20 ints by now if he was starting for any team.

 

[PatsFan2]

Stidham would have over 20 ints by now if he was starting for any team.

 

[Thelonious]

Buttressing Wozzy’s point is Jonnu Smith. Productive now in Atlanta when he couldn’t get much going in New England. A lot of that falls on Mac Jones, who is such an unpleasant player to watch.

He’s weak armed. Can’t do much about that. But his mechanics, esp throwing off his back foot, have regressed mightily.

I listen to the games now. Bob Socci and Scott Zolak. I just can’t watch our dumpster fire at QB.

If you remember when Nac was at Alabama, that offense DOMINATED. First-rounders on OL, wideouts, and RB.

Turns out he needs that in order to be an effective game manager—his ceiling.

But Belichick is first and foremost a defensive minded coach. He prefers his draft resources to be tilted toward the defensive side.

And Wozzy is again right. The OL did well. Washington had little pass rushing talent after trading their top two guys.

If we had gone more to the running game, perhaps the passing game would have opened up.

But like that overthrown pass to a wide open SkinnyT, Mac Jones should no longer have a future with this team.

He and us need a change of scenery.

All of this makes sense. What does NOT make sense is to so distract oneself with such lamntations re Mac that we do not extend our analysis to include the fact that the GM is an abysmal failure, and the HC of late is not much better. Disparaging Mac is fine, arguably justified, even given the teams failure properly to support him in his development, but while he is a problem, he is not the problem, nor even the main one.

Would any other GM with Bill's record be retained? Certainly not. Would any HC as obviously in decline as Bill be regarded as worthy of a team's long term commitment? No. Bill was a serviceable GM for a time, and he was a stellar HC. Neither, given the simple facts of the matter, is any longer the case.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We are doing what steeler fans are doing with matt canada if we’re thinking this one change is going to have us winning important games again. Mac’s not the guy, but our issues go far beyond him. GM is where id start.