Early impressions

[captain stone]

Thanks, Mr. Box.

When should I begin to be concerned about the running game, i.e.: runs which are not pass-action draws?

 

[maverick4]

The observations earleir in another thread that it seems that it may not be LoMo's fault on some of his runs - - that it mseems that the D-line just collapses on him and the OL doesn't get him holes - - may be predicated on the very point you brought up. If BB gets him more involved in the short passing game, maybe the DL's won't be able to "sit on the fastball" as easily in the future. At least put the thought in their mind that if they merely fill their lanes and push he could slip into the mid secondary and burn them on a short over the top pass. The Pats DID this in his rookie season (I remember the pre-season threads re him not being strong on pass catching - - and them quickly dispelling that) with ample success.

For some reason, the McDaniels went away from that the past few years. Hopefully, BB/O'Brien add that wrinkle again, because I believe it could have several ancillary benefits. Much of KFaulk's rushing success comes from the fact that he is a receiving threat and the DL's can't hone in.

Careful shmessy, any mentions of McDaniels being predictable, and that predictability can reduce effectiveness, will get you branded as a heretic.

 

[DaBruinz]

-- Bill Yates man got through and stuffed Morris on 4th & 1.
-- Vollmer either let his man through to kill 3rd and 1 or he and Orhnberger had a miscommunication, because they both blocked the same LB while the DE stuffed B-Jeepers. I'm leaning towards Vollmer.

The hardest hit that Bill Yates was involved in was when Morris plowed into him and knocked Yates forward 5 yards....

Yates clearly has slid backwards in his abilities..

 

[maverick4]

The observations earleir in another thread that it seems that it may not be LoMo's fault on some of his runs - - that it mseems that the D-line just collapses on him and the OL doesn't get him holes - - may be predicated on the very point you brought up. If BB gets him more involved in the short passing game, maybe the DL's won't be able to "sit on the fastball" as easily in the future. At least put the thought in their mind that if they merely fill their lanes and push he could slip into the mid secondary and burn them on a short over the top pass.

It doesn't even have to be through using Maroney for pass catching though. Given that opposing defenses are KEYING IN on the run whenever Maroney is in the game, how about some more play action passes in the middle of the field? It should be wide open from linebackers biting on play action. Hopefully O'Brien is the type of OC who actually capitalizes on our tendencies to keep defenses on their toes. I will not be surprised if play-action passes to Chris Baker become a devastating play in key moments, when Maroney enters the game.

 

[spacecrime]

Thanks box and spacecrime for straightening me out on the base defense questions. I did some searching around the internet for more info.

I found this: Football 101: Defensive Line Alignments

And then this on the same website: Football 101: Defensive Tackles

I thought it was interesting and worth sharing. Is there anywhere else I can look for information like this?

Without saying 1-gap or 2-gap, BB addressed this very issue in his presser:

Transcript to Bill Belichick's Sunday news conference - Projo Pats Blog

Q: How much, if any, does Jerod Mayo's role change whether you're playing in a 4-3 or 3-4?

BB: Well, all of our players in the front seven play with the same techniques regardless of what the front is. We still fundamentally do the same thing. Depending on what the call is, their reads change and their responsibilities change as far as coverage, dealing with blockers, recognizing their blocking schemes and things like that. There are some adjustments when players play different alignments. But the fundamentals of those positions, basically, we try to keep those the same so we're not changing the techniques.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thanks, Mr. Box.

When should I begin to be concerned about the running game, i.e.: runs which are not pass-action draws?

When NE has to run to set up the pass.

 

[wpdougie2180]

I'd have to agree about Maroney being used in the passing game. he avg. 29 yards per rec. in 07 but only caught 4 passes(that sounds like a weapon that should be used more than just 4 times). Like someone else has mentioned it has to be more about pass blocking the his hands.

 

[maverick4]

I'd have to agree about Maroney being used in the passing game. he avg. 29 yards per rec. in 07 but only caught 4 passes(that sounds like a weapon that should be used more than just 4 times). Like someone else has mentioned it has to be more about pass blocking the his hands.

Even if Maroney blocks like a blind midget, he would still be effective as the RB in a play action passing play, given how much the D keys in on him running. I'm pretty sure O'Brien is smart enough to see this, once he realizes our offensive tendencies as opposing teams see them.

 

[wpdougie2180]

Even if Maroney blocks like a blind midget, he would still be effective as the RB in a play action passing play, given how much the D keys in on him running. I'm pretty sure O'Brien is smart enough to see this, once he realizes our offensive tendencies as opposing teams see them.

Oh I completely agree and 29 yards on a screen play would seem to be a pretty effective play-call and 1 that should be called more than 4 times (off the top of my head I remember 3, 2 against the Ravens, and 1 against the Redskins I can't remember the other one)

 

[Fencer]

Yates clearly has slid backwards

And that's not what you want your OL to be doing.

 

[captain stone]

When NE has to run to set up the pass.

Well, then isn't that, like, immediately?

 

[DaBruinz]

Heh Db, if you get a chance give me the game clock for that play so I can look at it again.

Box - The play was 1st and 10 from the Eagles 29 with 2:12 remaining on the clock in the 2nd quarter...

If you could re-watch that entire series focusing on Alexader, I'd appreciate it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, then isn't that, like, immediately?

No.. Because New England hasn't used the run to set up the pass except for the one year Dillon was the primary runner...And, even then, its debatable.

 

[captain stone]

So that year would've been 2004, the last time the NEP won the SB? Hmmm...

 

[mayoclinic]

So that year would've been 2004, the last time the NEP won the SB? Hmmm...

Very interesting thought.

 

[patfanken]

Much to my dismay the Pats will run much of their running game out of the shot gun. Brady is much more comfortable from that position. The problem from where I see it, is that, while you can run a varied running attack from the shot gun, its all very slow develolping plays, either draws, delays, or sweeps. Nothing that allows the OL to just fire out aggressively, pull and double team across the line, and have running backs that are taking off and hit the LOS with a full head of steam.

IMHO that creates a lot of feast or famine situations. It has the OL back on its heels, and has the RBs less aggressive. On the plus side you are playing mostly against nickel and dime packages. Your pass offense is so freaking efficient that the defense has to play that first.

But Still in those 3rd and 2 or 3's I have less confidence in the run than I used to. Its like aggressive running has been bred out of them. I watch parts of the Jets and Vikes preseason game and they just ATTACK the LOS, while we just seem top finesse it. BTW this has less to do with the RBs, than the scheme and offensive philosophy.

Still its hard to question the success we've had using the offense Charlie developed, but Josh took to the next level.....at least in the passing game.

 

[mayoclinic]

Much to my dismay the Pats will run much of their running game out of the shot gun. Brady is much more comfortable from that position. The problem from where I see it, is that, while you can run a varied running attack from the shot gun, its all very slow develolping plays, either draws, delays, or sweeps. Nothing that allows the OL to just fire out aggressively, pull and double team across the line, and have running backs that are taking off and hit the LOS with a full head of steam.

IMHO that creates a lot of feast or famine situations. It has the OL back on its heels, and has the RBs less aggressive. On the plus side you are playing mostly against nickel and dime packages. Your pass offense is so freaking efficient that the defense has to play that first.

But Still in those 3rd and 2 or 3's I have less confidence in the run than I used to. Its like aggressive running has been bred out of them. I watch parts of the Jets and Vikes preseason game and they just ATTACK the LOS, while we just seem to finesse it. BTW this has less to do with the RBs, than the scheme and offensive philosophy.

Still its hard to question the success we've had using the offense Charlie developed, but Josh took to the next level.....at least in the passing game.

Interesting thoughts about the running game. In some ways it reminds me of the trend on defense - we seem to have become much more of a finesse team than in the SB years, with a defense that relies on containment and a "bend but don't break philosophy" and an offense which runs out of the shotgun. I wouldn't mind seeing a little more aggressiveness and smashmouth on both sides of the LOS.

 

[captain stone]

Speaking as someone who has been alive almost as long as the Patriots franchise itself, let me just say: I absolutely love these last 2 posts, and could not agree more with both of them.

PFK: "It's like aggressive running has been bred out of them." This is the definitive statement of the post-SB-winning Patriots offensive zeitgeist. Now, this team doesn't even have one FB on its roster. And after watching last week's game, it's beyond obvious to me that David Thomas is no Daniel Graham, nor even a Christian Fauria.

 

[smg93]

Much to my dismay the Pats will run much of their running game out of the shot gun. Brady is much more comfortable from that position. The problem from where I see it, is that, while you can run a varied running attack from the shot gun, its all very slow develolping plays, either draws, delays, or sweeps. Nothing that allows the OL to just fire out aggressively, pull and double team across the line, and have running backs that are taking off and hit the LOS with a full head of steam.

Direct snaps to the RB's might be a strategy to counter the slow developing plays problem.

 

[patfanken]

Direct snaps to the RB's might be a strategy to counter the slow developing plays problem.

The key element of the Wildcat, has nothing to do with the RBs/QB or the misdirection. The key factor is that it allows you to put an extra blocker at the point of attack, literally out manning the defense at the LOS. We will see this year, run by most teams, if nothing more to aggravate defensive coaching staffs and take away time from preparing for the main offense. I will be interested to see how the league reacts to the offensive set, now that they've had an off season to digest it.