Early impressions

[spacecrime]

I'm with space again (which is going to get me arrested sooner rather than later I'm afraid)

The last person who agreed with me twice spent over $2,000 in therapy, insists on carrying an umbrella even on sunny days, and to this day he gets hiccups for no apparent reason.

 

[maverick4]

Also, a base defense doesn't have to be base for life. It can change game by game. In fact, it should. Using the same base defense (again, think of the scoreless 1st and 10 defense) vs the Colts and the Ravens or Steelers wouldn't make sense.

Same goes for offense too.

 

[Synovia]

They must have watched a different game because Seymour wasn't being put on his back much at ill.. In fact, I don't remember a single play in which Seymour was Pancaked..

He wasn't. Not once. People love to make things up on here.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The last person who agreed with me twice spent over $2,000 in therapy, insists on carrying an umbrella even on sunny days, and to this day he gets hiccups for no apparent reason.

Wow! This post cured my hiccups!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I hadn't taken time to watch the youngsters in the second half, so I took time tonight to catch up with the second and third string guys.

Impressions:

-- Chung got to work with one series each with the starting Safeties in the second quarter before he and McGowan teamed up in the second half.
-- Players who had poor games: Ryan O'Callaghan, Billy Yates - I've seen better from both and they need to step it up.
-- Crable and Wheatly looked like guys who missed most of their rookie seasons. They have a better technical understanding, but there's no recognition/polish, it will come.
-- Second half KR blocking started off very shaky. Slater's second return was stopped short because Dave Thomas in the wedge missed a block. Nunn's third return was much better behind improved blocking, but I want to see more of him to get a better read on his field vision. The KR in the 4th quarter that those moronic Eagles announcers called a fumble was a dribbler off a short kick by Akers, Slater picked it up, but neither he nor Nunn touched it before that.
-- Nunn as a WR was positive, he definitely looks like a kid who should make the Practice Squad and be battling for a chance to be part of the future. Walter was looking for Nunn as his hot read, that says a lot.
-- The secondary got a good workout defending against A.J. Feeley, this guy has twice carried his team as the #2 QB as they went to the playoffs. Wheatley, Butler, Richardson, Chung, and McGowan did well overall, especially when you consider the Eagles used WRs they had running with the ones.
-- I didn't see much negative about Eric Alexander. Yes, he missed the tackle at the goal line, that one was bad, though bringing down a 5'9" 207 RB when you are running inside out isn't the easiest job, ask the starters who've tried to tackle Kevin Faulk down near the goal line. Alexander may have failed to get a deep enough drop in his zone as an OLB on another play, though it looked like Pat Chung failed to come down in his zone enough and there was some confusion between Wheatley, Chung, and Alexander. But overall he played well, especially helping to line-up Burgess, Crable, and Ninkovich. He certainly looked stouter against the OL than I've seen him in the past.
-- Titus Adams played well, as did Stephen Williams - the numbers are working against them, but they could develop nicely in KC. I hope to see Adams playing 3-4 NT before he's cut to get a better read on his jump from last season.
-- Sam Aiken is a beast as a blocker.
-- Walter didn't look too bad, and Coach O'Brien called a good game.
-- Alex Smith played okay, leaving him alone on a DE in pass protection while O'Callaghan danced wasn't good, but he made that DE fight for every step.
-- Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk got most of their big runs against the Nickel. If NE ever starts using Maroney in the passing game the opposition is gonna be wondering what hit them.
-- Wendell looked like he sticks, definitely one to watch.
-- Vollmer looked raw, he needs to get quicker on his pulls and WR screens.
-- I was going to gig Dave Thomas on his blitz pick-up as a RB, but his LB was called for hands to the face so he gets a do-over for holding after getting his head jacked back. Thomas had a pretty good overall game, once he got his head in the wedge.
-- I had Tank Williams and Rob Ninkovich's numbers confused, so I'll need to watch for that if I get time to rewatch this game. My impression on these two was flawed, so they're off the hook until I do it right.
-- Eric Alexander is ahead of Ciurciu on my roster, I just saw more from Alexander on the teams. A battle to watch.
-- The first team wedge of Hochstein and Alex Smith got Slater and Edelman 25+ yd returns, the second team wedge of Connelly and Dave Thomas started poorly when Thomas missed a block, but got better, Connelly wasn't bad, though on both OL and STs I think he's behind Hochstein...who's behind Wendell.
-- WOW! It's O'Connell's first drive and the Pats are pinned deep off the dribbler kickoff. Orhnberger is in at LG, Connelly has moved to Center and Wendell slid over to RG, Britt has come in at RT, DeVree is lined up at RTE. I looked first for Orhnberger, he was slow off the snap, but picked the MLB's run blitz and turned him out of the hole. Connelly turned and pancaked the NT, nice. Here comes the WOW! Wendell and Britt combo-ed the 3-tech, Wendell stood him up and Britt slid in and took inside position on the block while Wendell released and turned the WLB out leaving B-Jeepers a 4-lane highway up the middle. Execution, execution, and teamwork - :woohoo: DeVree handled the DE, and there's Ventrone blocking upfield. What a nice play with a terrific combo!
-- Vollmer just let his man through to kill a 3rd and 1 run. Could have been a miscommunication between him and Orhnberger, because they both blocked the LB.
-- Oh Tank! :ugh: Tank Williams at MLB just let that rookie RB spin off him and get open underneath for a reception and big YAC in the two-minute drill.
-- NE is using a "LB" corps of Crable, Tank Williams, and Pat Chung in the two-minute. They brought Alexander back out for the 3rd and 1 run stuff unit. A Darryl Richard sighting on that play, nice penetration to stuff the run and force the FG.

 

[DaBruinz]

I hadn't taken time to watch the youngsters in the second half, so I took time tonight to catch up with the second and third string guys.

Impressions:

-- Chung got to work with one series each with the starting Safeties in the second quarter before he and McGowan teamed up in the second half.
-- Players who had poor games: Ryan O'Callaghan, Billy Yates - I've seen better from both and they need to step it up.
-- Crable and Wheatly looked like guys who missed most of their rookie seasons. They have a better technical understanding, but there's no recognition/polish, it will come.
-- Second half KR blocking started off very shaky. Slater's second return was stopped short because Dave Thomas in the wedge missed a block. Nunn's third return was much better behind improved blocking, but I want to see more of him to get a better read on his field vision. The KR in the 4th quarter that those moronic Eagles announcers called a fumble was a dribbler off a short kick by Akers, Slater picked it up, but neither he nor Nunn touched it before that.
-- Nunn as a WR was positive, he definitely looks like a kid who should make the Practice Squad and be battling for a chance to be part of the future. Walter was looking for Nunn as his hot read, that says a lot.
-- The secondary got a good workout defending against A.J. Feeley, this guy has twice carried his team as the #2 QB as they went to the playoffs. Wheatley, Butler, Richardson, Chung, and McGowan did well overall, especially when you consider the Eagles used WRs they had running with the ones.
-- I didn't see much negative about Eric Alexander. Yes, he missed the tackle at the goal line, that one was bad, though bringing down a 5'9" 207 RB when you are running inside out isn't the easiest job, ask the starters who've tried to tackle Kevin Faulk down near the goal line. Alexander may have failed to get a deep enough drop in his zone as an OLB on another play, though it looked like Pat Chung failed to come down in his zone enough and there was some confusion between Wheatley, Chung, and Alexander. But overall he played well, especially helping to line-up Burgess, Crable, and Ninkovich. He certainly looked stouter against the OL than I've seen him in the past.
-- Titus Adams played well, as did Stephen Williams - the numbers are working against them, but they could develop nicely in KC. I hope to see Adams playing 3-4 NT before he's cut to get a better read on his jump from last season.
-- Sam Aiken is a beast as a blocker.
-- Walter didn't look too bad, and Coach O'Brien called a good game.
-- Alex Smith played okay, leaving him alone on a DE in pass protection while O'Callaghan danced wasn't good, but he made that DE fight for every step.
-- Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk got most of their big runs against the Nickel. If NE ever starts using Maroney in the passing game the opposition is gonna be wondering what hit them.
-- Wendell looked like he sticks, definitely one to watch.
-- Vollmer looked raw, he needs to get quicker on his pulls and WR screens.
-- I was going to gig Dave Thomas on his blitz pick-up as a RB, but his LB was called for hands to the face so he gets a do-over for holding after getting his head jacked back. Thomas had a pretty good overall game, once he got his head in the wedge.
-- I had Tank Williams and Rob Ninkovich's numbers confused, so I'll need to watch for that if I get time to rewatch this game. My impression on these two was flawed, so they're off the hook until I do it right.
-- Eric Alexander is ahead of Ciurciu on my roster, I just saw more from Alexander on the teams. A battle to watch.
-- The first team wedge of Hochstein and Alex Smith got Slater and Edelman 25+ yd returns, the second team wedge of Connelly and Dave Thomas started poorly when Thomas missed a block, but got better, Connelly wasn't bad, though on both OL and STs I think he's behind Hochstein...who's behind Wendell.
-- WOW! It's O'Connell's first drive and the Pats are pinned deep off the dribbler kickoff. Orhnberger is in at LG, Connelly has moved to Center and Wendell slid over to RG, Britt has come in at RT, DeVree is lined up at RTE. I looked first for Orhnberger, he was slow off the snap, but picked the MLB's run blitz and turned him out of the hole. Connelly turned and pancaked the NT, nice. Here comes the WOW! Wendell and Britt combo-ed the 3-tech, Wendell stood him up and Britt slid in and took inside position on the block while Wendell released and turned the WLB out leaving B-Jeepers a 4-lane highway up the middle. Execution, execution, and teamwork - :woohoo: DeVree handled the DE, and there's Ventrone blocking upfield. What a nice play with a terrific combo!
-- Vollmer just let his man through to kill a 3rd and 1 run. Could have been a miscommunication between him and Orhnberger, because they both blocked the LB.
-- Oh Tank! :ugh: Tank Williams at MLB just let that rookie RB spin off him and get open underneath for a reception and big YAC in the two-minute drill.
-- NE is using a "LB" corps of Crable, Tank Williams, and Pat Chung in the two-minute. They brought Alexander back out for the 3rd and 1 run stuff unit. A Darryl Richard sighting on that play, nice penetration to stuff the run and force the FG.

Box - I haven't finished re-watching the 2nd half... But we see much the same.

The only difference is that Alexander was horrible at the end of the 1st half. Constantly out of position or late to the play. I just don't see him sticking unless he does a complete 180 in the 2nd half.

I also think we disagree on O'Callaghan, but I am holding off final judgement until I get through the tape.

I have to say, breaking down the tape is friggin time consuming. Looking to see who does what on each play.Sorting the scrums is the worst... But its worth it.. And gives one a better appreciation for all the little things that go on during a game...

 

[shmessy]

Two posts ago, BOR wrote "Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk got most of their big runs against the Nickel. If NE ever starts using Maroney in the passing game the opposition is gonna be wondering what hit them."

In the words of Johnny Most - - "Bang!!!"

The observations earleir in another thread that it seems that it may not be LoMo's fault on some of his runs - - that it mseems that the D-line just collapses on him and the OL doesn't get him holes - - may be predicated on the very point you brought up. If BB gets him more involved in the short passing game, maybe the DL's won't be able to "sit on the fastball" as easily in the future. At least put the thought in their mind that if they merely fill their lanes and push he could slip into the mid secondary and burn them on a short over the top pass. The Pats DID this in his rookie season (I remember the pre-season threads re him not being strong on pass catching - - and them quickly dispelling that) with ample success.

For some reason, the McDaniels went away from that the past few years. Hopefully, BB/O'Brien add that wrinkle again, because I believe it could have several ancillary benefits. Much of KFaulk's rushing success comes from the fact that he is a receiving threat and the DL's can't hone in.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The only difference is that Alexander was horrible at the end of the 1st half. Constantly out of position or late to the play. I just don't see him sticking unless he does a complete 180 in the 2nd half.

What position is he playing that he's so out of position?

I also think we disagree on O'Callaghan, but I am holding off final judgement until I get through the tape.

Trust me, you'll be watching him and Yates and thinking those punctuation marks Coach Scarnecchia is reported to use.

I have to say, breaking down the tape is friggin time consuming. Looking to see who does what on each play.Sorting the scrums is the worst... But its worth it.. And gives one a better appreciation for all the little things that go on during a game...

Yes, after a while you get better at sorting out the non-critical portions and focusing in on the core of the play. During the season you also get better at identifying players by their body language and don't have to run through looking for numbers.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Two posts ago, BOR wrote "Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk got most of their big runs against the Nickel. If NE ever starts using Maroney in the passing game the opposition is gonna be wondering what hit them."

In the words of Johnny Most - - "Bang!!!"

The observations earleir in another thread that it seems that it may not be LoMo's fault on some of his runs - - that it mseems that the D-line just collapses on him and the OL doesn't get him holes - - may be predicated on the very point you brought up. If BB gets him more involved in the short passing game, maybe the DL's won't be able to "sit on the fastball" as easily in the future. At least put the thought in their mind that if they merely fill their lanes and push he could slip into the mid secondary and burn them on a short over the top pass. The Pats DID this in his rookie season (I remember the pre-season threads re him not being strong on pass catching - - and them quickly dispelling that) with ample success.

For some reason, the McDaniels went away from that the past few years. Hopefully, BB/O'Brien add that wrinkle again, because I believe it could have several ancillary benefits. Much of KFaulk's rushing success comes from the fact that he is a receiving threat and the DL's can't hone in.

Nah, he's just made of glass, has a wooden eye that blinds him to holes, and wants a career in the Riverdance revival that should be hitting about the time he retires. :idontgetit:

 

[Deus Irae]

Two posts ago, BOR wrote "Sammy Morris and Kevin Faulk got most of their big runs against the Nickel. If NE ever starts using Maroney in the passing game the opposition is gonna be wondering what hit them."

In the words of Johnny Most - - "Bang!!!"

The observations earleir in another thread that it seems that it may not be LoMo's fault on some of his runs - - that it mseems that the D-line just collapses on him and the OL doesn't get him holes - - may be predicated on the very point you brought up. If BB gets him more involved in the short passing game, maybe the DL's won't be able to "sit on the fastball" as easily in the future. At least put the thought in their mind that if they merely fill their lanes and push he could slip into the mid secondary and burn them on a short over the top pass. The Pats DID this in his rookie season (I remember the pre-season threads re him not being strong on pass catching - - and them quickly dispelling that) with ample success.

For some reason, the McDaniels went away from that the past few years. Hopefully, BB/O'Brien add that wrinkle again, because I believe it could have several ancillary benefits. Much of KFaulk's rushing success comes from the fact that he is a receiving threat and the DL's can't hone in.

Nah, he's just made of glass, has a wooden eye that blinds him to holes, and wants a career in the Riverdance revival that should be hitting about the time he retires. :idontgetit:

What's fascinating to me is that the media seems to buy into the same "Maroney dances" mantra that so many here do. Time will tell, of course, but I find that most of the more knowledgeable posters and/or those who break down the film more (Box, AWTE, etc...), defend Maroney quite a bit, and talk about the same question regarding play calling.

As a tangent, and just as a "What if?", if Maroney not getting the ball in the passing game is a product of Brady's 'lack of trust', Tom Terrific needs to get over it and toss the kid the rock when he's open.

 

[mgteich]

Many people here believe that BJGE would have been able to power though the holes provided by the first string OL against the first string Philly DL. Everyone is entitled to their binkies. For the rest of us, BJGE is our #5 RB who will have a roster spot if Belichick decides to keep five running backs.

Persaonally, I don't think Morris or BJGE could have done any better than Maroney. Taylor is another story entirely. We'll see.

What's fascinating to me is that the media seems to buy into the same "Maroney dances" mantra that so many here do. Time will tell, of course, but I find that most of the more knowledgeable posters and/or those who break down the film more (Box, AWTE, etc...), defend Maroney quite a bit, and talk about the same question regarding play calling.

As a tangent, and just as a "What if?", if Maroney not getting the ball in the passing game is a product of Brady's 'lack of trust', Tom Terrific needs to get over it and toss the kid the rock when he's open.

 

[DaBruinz]

What position is he playing that he's so out of position?

At the end of the 1st half, when the Pats are playing almost exclusively in their nickle package, Guyton and Alexander are playing the two LB positions. They take turns as to who is playing LLB and who is playing the RLB. Alexander, as the RLB, was supposed to have coverage on the Slot Receiver, didn't get into position in time for the snap and was beaten like a dead horse for the reception and the 1st down.

Trust me, you'll be watching him and Yates and thinking those punctuation marks Coach Scarnecchia is reported to use

Well, I've been down on Yates since the SB.. So that won't be a surprise. As for R O'C, I'll try and keep an open mind while watching..

Yes, after a while you get better at sorting out the non-critical portions and focusing in on the core of the play. During the season you also get better at identifying players by their body language and don't have to run through looking for numbers.

I was doing pretty well with the first half of know who was and wasn't on the field.. though you are right, having to sort the numbers makes things harder.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

At the end of the 1st half, when the Pats are playing almost exclusively in their nickle package, Guyton and Alexander are playing the two LB positions. They take turns as to who is playing LLB and who is playing the RLB. Alexander, as the RLB, was supposed to have coverage on the Slot Receiver, didn't get into position in time for the snap and was beaten like a dead horse for the reception and the 1st down.

He's an OLB on the play you cite, Guyton is in the middle, and Crable is on the other side. Alexander is shading the slot, he's playing an underneath zone and Wheatley is probably playing a middle/sideline zone, the outside receiver runs a post and Wheatley let's him go to jump the slot receiver running an out. Chung was in the game alongside Meriweather and on that side of the field and appeared to be in cover-2...
1. If Alexander made a mistake it's one of not getting enough depth on his drop, the man running the post behind him was never his even so.
2. Wheatley jumping the out route was more likely to be a mistake, he probably should have been a little deeper and shading outside that post while watching for the short route.
3. Chung was too deep, that is almost surely a mistake. Meriweather had to make the tackle because Chung was that far out of position.

Of the three, I give Alexander the greatest benefit of the doubt, in particular because this is the first season I've read about him crosstraining at OLB. He looked more confident in the second half when he moved to MLB. At minimum there was a communications breakdown between the three players on that side of the field.

 

[DaBruinz]

He's an OLB on the play you cite, Guyton is in the middle, and Crable is on the other side. Alexander is shading the slot, he's playing an underneath zone and Wheatley is probably playing a middle/sideline zone, the outside receiver runs a post and Wheatley let's him go to jump the slot receiver running an out. Chung was in the game alongside Meriweather and on that side of the field and appeared to be in cover-2...
1. If Alexander made a mistake it's one of not getting enough depth on his drop, the man running the post behind him was never his even so.
2. Wheatley jumping the out route was more likely to be a mistake, he probably should have been a little deeper and shading outside that post while watching for the short route.
3. Chung was too deep, that is almost surely a mistake. Meriweather had to make the tackle because Chung was that far out of position.

Of the three, I give Alexander the greatest benefit of the doubt, in particular because this is the first season I've read about him crosstraining at OLB. He looked more confident in the second half when he moved to MLB. At minimum there was a communications breakdown between the three players on that side of the field.

On the play I'm citing, the Pats were in their nickle package. Crable was in at DE, not as an OLB...

If Alexander was in Zone coverage, why did he attempt to run, stride for stride, with the slot receiver?

While I do keep in the back of my mind that if we are seeying Guyton and Alexander on the field at the same time the Pats are in an injury crisis, I still don't like what I see from Alexander. He was slow off the snap. He didn't seem to be great in pursuit.

I'll be finishing the 2nd half today.. So, maybe he turns it around as you say. I'll post my comments later.

 

[Funktopus]

Thanks box and spacecrime for straightening me out on the base defense questions. I did some searching around the internet for more info.

I found this: Football 101: Defensive Line Alignments

And then this on the same website: Football 101: Defensive Tackles

I thought it was interesting and worth sharing. Is there anywhere else I can look for information like this?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thanks box and spacecrime for straightening me out on the base defense questions. I did some searching around the internet for more info.

I found this: Football 101: Defensive Line Alignments

And then this on the same website: Football 101: Defensive Tackles

I thought it was interesting and worth sharing. Is there anywhere else I can look for information like this?

Aagghh! Google is your friend!

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

On the play I'm citing, the Pats were in their nickle package. Crable was in at DE, not as an OLB...

If Alexander was in Zone coverage, why did he attempt to run, stride for stride, with the slot receiver?

While I do keep in the back of my mind that if we are seeying Guyton and Alexander on the field at the same time the Pats are in an injury crisis, I still don't like what I see from Alexander. He was slow off the snap. He didn't seem to be great in pursuit.

I'll be finishing the 2nd half today.. So, maybe he turns it around as you say. I'll post my comments later.

Heh Db, if you get a chance give me the game clock for that play so I can look at it again.

 

[captain stone]

For some reason, the McDaniels went away from that the past few years. Hopefully, BB/O'Brien add that wrinkle again, because I believe it could have several ancillary benefits.

McD went away from LaMa as a pass-catcher the last 2 years because of the arrival of the Randy Ratio, and - to a lesser extent - Wes Welker.

One of those ancillary benefits would be employing fewer 7-step drops, and therefore not having to hope that this OLine can protect Brady long enough to fulfill the aforementioned Ratio.

 

[captain stone]

I re-watched the game today, but I didn't catch the unsuccessful attempts on the 3rd & 4th-down runs.

What I want to know is, on whom exactly can I rightfully assign blame?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I re-watched the game today, but I didn't catch the unsuccessful attempts on the 3rd & 4th-down runs.

What I want to know is, on whom exactly can I rightfully assign blame?

-- Bill Yates man got through and stuffed Morris on 4th & 1.
-- Vollmer either let his man through to kill 3rd and 1 or he and Orhnberger had a miscommunication, because they both blocked the same LB while the DE stuffed B-Jeepers. I'm leaning towards Vollmer.