NEW ARTICLE: Flores Dragging Belichick Further Into His Lawsuit, Burning Yet Another Bridge

[Ian]

He didn’t get another job for 5 years and that was only because he developed a personal relationship with and impressed the owner of the team he was an assistant for.
So yeah, that is how he was perceived.
The fact that the perception was wrong doesn’t prove that everyone perceived that way isn’t what they are perceived as. Rex Ryan and Adam Gase got immediate second chances and proved they were what they were fired for.


There is still the issue that many rumors say that it was Flores who created the distraction with Tua by making comments about wishing he had Watson instead.

Yes, but you said a coach should be able to handle that, or he's not a good coach. I didn't realize we were switching gears to how they were perceived outside of that. But yes, I'm sure there are others who don't look at that context given what we heard about Belichick. And regarding that comment, that was Lombardi, who later walked that back.

 

[Joker]

I remember the end of BB's tenure at Cleveland vividly...he was castigated because he wouldn't throw stones at Modell for leaving like a thief in the night. I thought he had that Browns team on the precipice of a Super Bowl. I certainly saw what everyone else did when BB was the Giants D co-ordinator. At any point back then I, a Patriots fan, would have gladly accepted BB as head coach of our team. LOOK at the idiots who preceded him...and yes, Parcells was an idiot/jerk for the crap he pulled on us.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, but you said a coach should be able to handle that, or he's not a good coach. I didn't realize we were switching gears to how they were perceived outside of that. But yes, I'm sure there are others who don't look at that context given what we heard about Belichick. And regarding that comment, that was Lombardi, who later walked that back.

I’m not switching gears at all.
My approach all along is that a coach is responsible for succeeding. I think it’s apparent from my history of posting here that I always judge results and don’t temper results with reasoning or excuses.
You said Flores results weee tempered by those things and I said I expect part of coaching to be overcoming those things.
Then you pivoted to belichick must have been bad in Cleveland then. My response was that it seems that’s what people thought because he didn’t get a job for 5 years.
This is in the context of why Flores hasn’t gotten a job yet.
I think they are decent parallels.

Maybe the difference is you are talking about whether Flores is a good coach and I am talking about what his record says.
Neither of us know what he will do if he gets a second chance.
As I said from the outset, I’m not saying he sucks, I’m saying I don’t see an egregious snubbing of him, as a clear cut unimpeachable candidate.

 

[Ian]

I’m not switching gears at all.
My approach all along is that a coach is responsible for succeeding. I think it’s apparent from my history of posting here that I always judge results and don’t temper results with reasoning or excuses.
You said Flores results weee tempered by those things and I said I expect part of coaching to be overcoming those things.
Then you pivoted to belichick must have been bad in Cleveland then. My response was that it seems that’s what people thought because he didn’t get a job for 5 years.
This is in the context of why Flores hasn’t gotten a job yet.
I think they are decent parallels.

Maybe the difference is you are talking about whether Flores is a good coach and I am talking about what his record says.
Neither of us know what he will do if he gets a second chance.
As I said from the outset, I’m not saying he sucks, I’m saying I don’t see an egregious snubbing of him, as a clear cut unimpeachable candidate.

I didn't pivot - I just gave another example of another coach in a similar situation with a significant distraction and that context is important. You said a coach should be able to overcome them, I just pointed out that it's not always that easy and it doesn't make them a bad coach.

Regarding outside perception, I do agree with you on that.

 

[Ian]

Also,

I’m not switching gears at all.
My approach all along is that a coach is responsible for succeeding. I think it’s apparent from my history of posting here that I always judge results and don’t temper results with reasoning or excuses.
You said Flores results weee tempered by those things and I said I expect part of coaching to be overcoming those things.
Then you pivoted to belichick must have been bad in Cleveland then. My response was that it seems that’s what people thought because he didn’t get a job for 5 years.
This is in the context of why Flores hasn’t gotten a job yet.
I think they are decent parallels.

Maybe the difference is you are talking about whether Flores is a good coach and I am talking about what his record says.
Neither of us know what he will do if he gets a second chance.
As I said from the outset, I’m not saying he sucks, I’m saying I don’t see an egregious snubbing of him, as a clear cut unimpeachable candidate.

Also, regarding his record, I already expressed my thoughts there as looking at the overall record without context doesn't always tell the whole story, with Belichick's record in Cleveland, again, being another example.

 

[Ring 6]

I didn't pivot - I just gave another example of another coach in a similar situation with a significant distraction and that context is important. You said a coach should be able to overcome them, I just pointed out that it's not always that easy and it doesn't make them a bad coach.

Regarding outside perception, I do agree with you on that.

Belichick didn’t handle it got fired and took 5 years to get a job, so yeah failure to deal with adversity is part of coaching. Belichick admits he grew as a coach after that, so maybe he wasn’t ready then, which would seem reasonable based upon the way he handled avoiding distraction in New England.

 

[Ring 6]

Also,

Also, regarding his record, I already expressed my thoughts there as looking at the overall record without context doesn't always tell the whole story, with Belichick's record in Cleveland, again, being another example.

I don’t think that what came later changes the job belichick did in Cleveland. It’s hard to argue he shouldn’t have been fired from that job.(without the benefit of hindsight).

 

[‘Mondre]

Guys Goodell said it’s unacceptable

 

[jimnance]

Flores was 24-25 and lost 7 in a row this year. That is not good.

Yeah, then he WON 7 in a row immediately after that. And he posted back to back winning seasons for the 1st time in a million years eith Miami. With a crappy qb.
But don't let the FACTS get in your way.

 

[patchick]

The pool of coach candidates is the pool of people who choose coaching football as a career.
So at the top of the funnel it is roughly people who play HS football.

In theory, maybe. But the vast majority of NFL coaches played in college, even if not at a high level. Even coaches you don't usually think of as players -- Belichick, McDaniels, Rex Ryan, etc . -- did play on their college football teams. It's a basic sign of taking the sport seriously.

What's more, the higher the level you reach as a player, the greater the chances of becoming an NFL coach, thanks to the experience, exposure and connections gained. The % of coaches who are former NFL players generally runs 20-25%, so wildly far above chance as to be unarguable as a factor.

FWIW, here are the percentages of African-American players at three levels of football.
22% high school
46% major conference college
70% NFL
If you take a weighted average to reflect the higher chances of NFL coaching careers for players at higher levels, you end up with an expected outcome of about 50% African-American coaches. Note this is not a "target" number. It's just what you would expect to naturally happen, all else being equal. The fact that the actual percentage never comes anywhere close to that suggests all else is not equal.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I remember the end of BB's tenure at Cleveland vividly...he was castigated because he wouldn't throw stones at Modell for leaving like a thief in the night. I thought he had that Browns team on the precipice of a Super Bowl. I certainly saw what everyone else did when BB was the Giants D co-ordinator. At any point back then I, a Patriots fan, would have gladly accepted BB as head coach of our team. LOOK at the idiots who preceded him...and yes, Parcells was an idiot/jerk for the crap he pulled on us.

We were lucky kraft saw the same thing. I wonder who, if anyone would have been willing to give up a first for bb at that time.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, then he WON 7 in a row immediately after that. And he posted back to back winning seasons for the 1st time in a million years eith Miami. With a crappy qb.
But don't let the FACTS get in your way.

Do you think losing 7 in a row them winning 7 in a row = good?
He never made the playoffs. Over 43% of teams now make the playoffs.
During his tenure out of the 16 teams in the AFC only Miami, the Jete, Jacksonville the chargers and Denver have not made the playoffs and everyone of those teams fired their coaches. In the NFC only the Giants, lions, falcons and panthers have not made the playoffs in the last 3 seasons.

There are currently zero NFL coaches in place who have never made the playoffs and been employed 3 years.

There is currently 1 NFL HCs who failed to make the playoffs in their 1st 3 years as a HC and he was fired from that job.

0 playoff teams in 3 years seems to be an by enormous correlation to being fired.

Don’t let FACTS get in your way.

 

[zipster9]

Flores won't be a head coach in NFL anytime soon....

He burned the bridge with Patriots...

 

[Ring 6]

In theory, maybe. But the vast majority of NFL coaches played in college, even if not at a high level. Even coaches you don't usually think of as players -- Belichick, McDaniels, Rex Ryan, etc . -- did play on their college football teams. It's a basic sign of taking the sport seriously.

What's more, the higher the level you reach as a player, the greater the chances of becoming an NFL coach, thanks to the experience, exposure and connections gained. The % of coaches who are former NFL players generally runs 20-25%, so wildly far above chance as to be unarguable as a factor.

FWIW, here are the percentages of African-American players at three levels of football.
22% high school
46% major conference college
70% NFL
If you take a weighted average to reflect the higher chances of NFL coaching careers for players at higher levels, you end up with an expected outcome of about 50% African-American coaches. Note this is not a "target" number. It's just what you would expect to naturally happen, all else being equal. The fact that the actual percentage never comes anywhere close to that suggests all else is not equal.

The pool for coaches isn’t players, it’s people who choose to be football coaches. In the United States 9.4% of football coaches are black.
You are assuming all players want to coach.

 

[jimnance]

Do you think losing 7 in a row them winning 7 in a row = good?
He never made the playoffs. Over 43% of teams now make the playoffs.
During his tenure out of the 16 teams in the AFC only Miami, the Jete, Jacksonville the chargers and Denver have not made the playoffs and everyone of those teams fired their coaches. In the NFC only the Giants, lions, falcons and panthers have not made the playoffs in the last 3 seasons.

There are currently zero NFL coaches in place who have never made the playoffs and been employed 3 years.

There is currently 1 NFL HCs who failed to make the playoffs in their 1st 3 years as a HC and he was fired from that job.

0 playoff teams in 3 years seems to be an by enormous correlation to being fired.

Don’t let FACTS get in your way.

He turned their season around and helped them to finish strong. Its how you finish that counts. He led them to 2 straight winning seasons. That hadnt happened in Miami for many years.Hes the most successful Mismi HC in a LONG time. FACTS

 

[Betterthanmost]

Just saw Flores interview on NPR, he is a piece of trash . Backstabber, crybaby, snitch, etc

I am unable to pin point what BB may have done to him. This is personal. Is it not naming him DC? Or was it during the anthem protest which I suspect BB was not for anyone kneeling during the anthem? I see the McCourty twins strong support of Flores and they are all connected somewhere that I can't quite piece it together.
There is no bigger betrayal in my book than someone using my personal comms publicly or sharing with someone. I think he feels BB did not give him a chance, he created the chance himself and now BB and his old boys club are trying to stop him career.

 

[Ring 6]

He turned their season around and helped them to finish strong. Its how you finish that counts. He led them to 2 straight winning seasons. That hadnt happened in Miami for many years.Hes the most successful Mismi HC in a LONG time. FACTS

It’s not how you finish that counts if you finish out of the playoffs. All games count.
Adam Gase was 23-25, Flores was 24-25.

If you have a series of coaches who fail to get you to the playoffs do you think that makes not making them with the most recent one better?

He was there 3 years and didn’t make the playoffs, can you show me the coaches who kept their job after that. It’s pretty much certain firing. Not getting a 4th isn’t an injustice it’s the norm.

 

[venecol]

Guys Goodell said it’s unacceptable

Well either Goodell didn't read Andy's "study" or he's a racist. Lmao

 

[Ring 6]

Well either Goodell didn't read Andy's "study" or he's a racist. Lmao

Or he is defending a lawsuit.

Still no response to the facts, huh?

 

[‘Mondre]

Well either Goodell didn't read Andy's "study" or he's a racist. Lmao

You misspelled capitalist.