Pre-Post Game Observations, preseason wk 3 at Lions

[letekro]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

I agree, earlier in his career it was very tough to rattle him. Now, it's different, it's clear that if you hit him early, he does get rattled and it impacts the rest of his game, as we saw in the POs. He's definately changed over the last few years in that regard.

Since the ACL, it's been the same story when he gets pressure. It's not enough to say, "when he gets protection, he is deadly"--that's true of many quarterbacks. What made him arguably the GOAT was his ability to stay composed during the critical last split-second when the rush is closing in and the receiver is coming open. Sad to say, but those days may be gone forever. Compare the Brady in SB 42--staying in until the last second and taking massive hit after massive hit without flinching, and the Brady since--as soon as he gets hit a few times, he stops stepping into his throws and starts one hopping everything. Even though we lost SB 42, we can certainly win it all with that Brady. With the new Brady, I'm not positive.

 

[BendButDontBreak37]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

I agree, earlier in his career it was very tough to rattle him. Now, it's different, it's clear that if you hit him early, he does get rattled and it impacts the rest of his game, as we saw in the POs. He's definately changed over the last few years in that regard.

Since the ACL, it's been the same story when he gets pressure. It's not enough to say, "when he gets protection, he is deadly"--that's true of many quarterbacks. What made him arguably the GOAT was his ability to stay composed during the critical last split-second when the rush is closing in and the receiver is coming open. Sad to say, but those days may be gone forever. Compare the Brady in SB 42--staying in until the last second and taking massive hit after massive hit without flinching, and the Brady since--as soon as he gets hit a few times, he stops stepping into his throws and starts one hopping everything. Even though we lost SB 42, we can certainly win it all with that Brady. With the new Brady, I'm not positive.

At least we have Mallet in the wings.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

What game were you watching? They played the same scheme, they just were awfiul at it, or on the other hand they finally faced a capable offense. There is a lot of work to do. Hopefully Haynesworth, Spikes, Cunningham, Bodden, Brace will be back soon, we are going to need them.

Clearly, Andy, you saw something entirely different than most other people. The Pats defense was VANILLA for the Detroit game, other than them going with 3 safeties on a couple of occasions in their nickle and dime defenses.

There was no blitzing by the LBers. Only Wilhite blitzed. They had Mayo playing back most of the time.

And, despite the Pats defense being vanilla, it took perfect passes from Stafford to beat for him to beat the Pats CBs. And that includes McCourty.

What I saw, most of all, was that Brady didn't have the normal fire we're all used to. From the outset, Brady looked off. His body language said that he wasn't comfortable. Much like he looked in both play-off losses. And he sets the tone for the entire team because there isn't that emotional leader on defense, yet. Wilfork is getting there. As is Mayo.

That doesn't excuse the rest of the team. The reserve O-line needs to play better. The Pats need someone to step up at RG. Until they can get that, there is going to be issues with Vollmer and/or Koppen trying to over-compensate and then missing their own assignments.

There is an issue at safety. Neither Meriweather or Chung have shown the ability to play-call for the DBs. Sanders can do it, but he doesn't have the talent that Meriweather and Chung have. Chung, as mentioned by others, is an issue in pass coverage. Meriweather was free-lancing and it burned the Pats a few times..

On a positive note. I've seen plenty of Pats players hitting opponents from Shoulders to belt. Nothing high and nothing low. Which is great to see. They just need to wrap up more.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

The worst INT i've seen Brady throw in a very long time.

It was a helluva lot better than the last INT he threw. If the ball wasn't underthrown, it could have been a big play.

 

[Observer]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

Just got done re-watching the game.

• Synopsis: Brady was terrible last night. He had time in the first half with a wide open Welker and Woodhead on several plays and he plain blew the throws. Looked neurotic and scared well before the Lions actually did start getting to him later in the game. Yes, Vollmer was beaten like a rented mule on multiple plays but Brady is the main culprit here, taking too long to get rid of the ball and 'scrambling' when there was no need to several times.
  
• McCourty looked good. Watch the game again. Made plays and was competitive on the ones he gave up with Stafford making some unbelievable throws. Butler looked good overall with Arrington the one giving up the bad plays in this one.

Not sure anything could have overcome Brady last night.

I agree with this assessment. Initially I thought that Brady did what he could with the amount of time he had but upon reviewing some of the plays, I would say that it was 50% pressure from the lions but it was 50% Brady who was scared and convinced himself that there was not enough time, at least in the early parts of the game. Even on plays where there was time, he threw far too early and/or missed. He needs to have more games like this to learn to calm his nerves. For someone of his years of experience though, I don't know if there is hope for him.

Left side of the line seemed okay, both light and solder as well as mankins. The right side of the line was putrid. Vollmer had the tackle routinely going around him while connolly/ohrnberger were simply manhandled. DTs were going right through those two. We need someone else in there who can at least impede the DT even if they cant hold them up.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

Since the ACL, it's been the same story when he gets pressure. It's not enough to say, "when he gets protection, he is deadly"--that's true of many quarterbacks. What made him arguably the GOAT was his ability to stay composed during the critical last split-second when the rush is closing in and the receiver is coming open. Sad to say, but those days may be gone forever. Compare the Brady in SB 42--staying in until the last second and taking massive hit after massive hit without flinching, and the Brady since--as soon as he gets hit a few times, he stops stepping into his throws and starts one hopping everything. Even though we lost SB 42, we can certainly win it all with that Brady. With the new Brady, I'm not positive.

Tom Brady is better now than when he was winning Super Bowls. QBs don't win Super Bowls, teams do.

 

[rojo8401]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

Clearly, Andy, you saw something entirely different than most other people. The Pats defense was VANILLA for the Detroit game, other than them going with 3 safeties on a couple of occasions in their nickle and dime defenses.

There was no blitzing. They had Mayo playing back most of the time.

And, despite the Pats defense being vanilla, it took perfect passes from Stafford to beat for him to beat the Pats CBs. And that includes McCourty.

What I saw, most of all, was that Brady didn't have the normal fire we're all used to. From the outset, Brady looked off. His body language said that he wasn't comfortable. Much like he looked in both play-off losses. And he sets the tone for the entire team because there isn't that emotional leader on defense, yet. Wilfork is getting there. As is Mayo.

That doesn't excuse the rest of the team. The reserve O-line needs to play better. The Pats need someone to step up at RG. Until they can get that, there is going to be issues with Vollmer and/or Koppen trying to over-compensate and then missing their own assignments.

There is an issue at safety. Neither Meriweather or Chung have shown the ability to play-call for the DBs. Sanders can do it, but he doesn't have the talent that Meriweather and Chung have. Chung, as mentioned by others, is an issue in pass coverage. Meriweather was free-lancing and it burned the Pats a few times..

On a positive note. I've seen plenty of Pats players hitting opponents from Shoulders to belt. Nothing high and nothing low. Which is great to see. They just need to wrap up more.

I agree with everything you typed here. I might argue the amount of blitzing they did but overall you nailed it.

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

Clearly, Andy, you saw something entirely different than most other people. The Pats defense was VANILLA for the Detroit game, other than them going with 3 safeties on a couple of occasions in their nickle and dime defenses.

There was no blitzing by the LBers. Only Wilhite blitzed. They had Mayo playing back most of the time.

And, despite the Pats defense being vanilla, it took perfect passes from Stafford to beat for him to beat the Pats CBs. And that includes McCourty.

You may have missed Arrington blitzing from the slot, although he was the only one with a sack the first half, or the hit Mayo put on Stafford on his underthrown fade to Calvin Johnson that McCourty couldn't find.

In the second half, they kept sending linebackers up the middle, and you might recall when Markell Carter nearly jumped into the center or when Koutouvides sacked Zac Robinson late in the 4th.

At worst you could say they were playing Neapolitan.

 

[atomdomb]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

You may have missed Arrington blitzing from the slot, although he was the only one with a sack the first half, or the hit Mayo put on Stafford on his underthrown fade to Calvin Johnson that McCourty couldn't find.

In the second half, they kept sending linebackers up the middle, and you might recall when Markell Carter nearly jumped into the center or when Koutouvides sacked Zac Robinson late in the 4th.

At worst you could say they were playing Neapolitan.

He didn't miss much. He mistook Arrington for Whilhite. Mayo blitzed one time in the first five series against Stafford. 2 blitzes by Arrington and one by Mayo. That was it. By the end of the third they had blitzed 6 times. Very vanilla.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

Clearly, Andy, you saw something entirely different than most other people. The Pats defense was VANILLA for the Detroit game, other than them going with 3 safeties on a couple of occasions in their nickle and dime defenses.

There was no blitzing by the LBers. Only Wilhite blitzed. They had Mayo playing back most of the time.

And, despite the Pats defense being vanilla, it took perfect passes from Stafford to beat for him to beat the Pats CBs. And that includes McCourty.

Along those lines:
Twitter / Ian R. Rapoport: Just watched the first two ...

Just watched the first two Lions offensive drives. Patriots rushed 4, dropped 7 every play. Very vanilla from Pats. 10-0.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

First series - no blitzes. Nickel D except they used Ninkovich at DE instead of Carter. That is a big difference from the Bucs game. McCourty looked awful and should have given up a touchdown.

Second series - no blitzes. Nickel D with four rushes. No Cover 1 or O like in the Bucs game yet. That screen was very well run. The lions are going to be dangerous this year.

Third series - 2 blitzes. 1st down. Ninkovich now upright as a linebacker and Moore in at DE. Now running 4-3 with no nickelback.
2nd down - back to the Nickel.
At 12:28 in the second qutr the Pats run their first blitz when the nose tackles twisted and Arrington shot the gap. Nice blitz but Sanders who had TE responsibility was ridiculously late. Next play they run the same thing from the other side and sack Stafford. Series over. Punt. It wasn't until the last two plays of the third series on D that they blitzed. This is a departure from the week before. Sure the base scheme may have been the "same" but it wasn't nearly the same overall defensive game plan. Remember Mayo and Guyton blitzing the Bucs. Three series in they are still flat footed in most drop zone coverage. Not different?

Fourth series - 2nd play of series the Pats bring both Mayo and Guyton and Mayo crushes Stafford. Stafford throws that pop fly to Johnson who makes a great catch making McCourty look bad again. Next play TD.

Four series - 3 blitzes. Scheme is Nickel and I still say a departure from the game before.

Fifth series - no blitzes. Dmac makes a great play to end it with a 3 and out.

Five series against Stafford and 3 blitzes. Only one blitz that involved the linebackers. This is a different game plan than that against Tampa. The only time they blitzed the backers Stafford got crushed and threw up a prayer. In my opinion this would have happened more often if we had blitzed more like the Bucs game. They most certainly did not press the issue. It seemed like Bill wanted to see coverages.

Against Shaun Hill they blitzed twice in his first series.

In the second half with our 1st D playing the Lions 2nd O they still did not blitz. Against Drew Stanton they stayed in the same drop zone coverage. By the end of the had third they blitzed around 6 times. All game. Again, nickel scheme but not the same as the Bucs game...

On a side note...the Brady to Welker TD was not exciting. They tricked a couple of second team corners and safeties. Big deal.

They played nickle more because of the offense. They aren't going to match up vs 3 and 4 wides (and a downfiled receiving TE when its 3) with a base 43. The DL played the exact same techniques, the LBs and secondary played the same techniques.
I thought it was obvious the personell packages match the offensive personell.
The players made plays last week, and didn't this week.

\

 

[Patjew]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

OTOH, when you have Avril (oh what might've been) & the punk Suh foaming at the mouth
like rabid wolverines, you have to stop worrying about the weather & start worrying about
the health of your Franchise QB.

No doubt, you are correct. I'm just saying that it's impossible for any parent to not be a little concerned with something like Irene going on. I'm on a business trip in Asia now and I'm doing my job as a professional, but I have to admit that my mind has been wandering back home even during some important meetings.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

Clearly, Andy, you saw something entirely different than most other people. The Pats defense was VANILLA for the Detroit game, other than them going with 3 safeties on a couple of occasions in their nickle and dime defenses.

First off all I was responding to the guy who said we played 34.
Secondly, we played the same scheme regardless of whether we blitzed more or less. I think you will find the difference wasn't a big as you think if you actually counted the blitzes.

And, despite the Pats defense being vanilla, it took perfect passes from Stafford to beat for him to beat the Pats CBs. And that includes McCourty.

He may have made some perfect passes, but his receivers were pretty open.

What I saw, most of all, was that Brady didn't have the normal fire we're all used to. From the outset, Brady looked off. His body language said that he wasn't comfortable.

Oh God, here we go with the prescient body language. Give me a break.

Much like he looked in both play-off losses. And he sets the tone for the entire team because there isn't that emotional leader on defense, yet. Wilfork is getting there. As is Mayo.

You mean he looked like his team lost?

That doesn't excuse the rest of the team. The reserve O-line needs to play better. The Pats need someone to step up at RG. Until they can get that, there is going to be issues with Vollmer and/or Koppen trying to over-compensate and then missing their own assignments.

That simply isnt what happened.

There is an issue at safety. Neither Meriweather or Chung have shown the ability to play-call for the DBs.

Please explain how you saw this on the TV feed. In fact please explain how you think they are supposed to 'play call for the secondary'?

Sanders can do it,

Really? Exactly what is it that he does?

but he doesn't have the talent that Meriweather and Chung have. Chung, as mentioned by others, is an issue in pass coverage. Meriweather was free-lancing and it burned the Pats a few times..

OK another euphamism. Can you please identify which plays Meriwhehter 'free lanced' on and how it burned the Pats. Please also describe what the play call was, what Meriwhether responsbility was and how he free lanced.
Or just admit that you've heard people make that criticism of him so you thought it would be good to throw in.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

No doubt, you are correct. I'm just saying that it's impossible for any parent to not be a little concerned with something like Irene going on. I'm on a business trip in Asia now and I'm doing my job as a professional, but I have to admit that my mind has been wandering back home even during some important meetings.

Fair points. And I do hope that everybody up in NE is safe & sound.

 

[unoriginal]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

He didn't miss much. He mistook Arrington for Whilhite. Mayo blitzed one time in the first five series against Stafford. 2 blitzes by Arrington and one by Mayo. That was it. By the end of the third they had blitzed 6 times. Very vanilla.

If he mistook Arrington for Wilhite then he missed Wilhite blitzing at least once on what turned out to be a running play.

If you've actually counted the number of blitzes for the game, and can compare it against, say, the Lions game last year, I'll defer to the stats. But to say the Pats did not blitz their linebackers, or at all, during the game would be inaccurate.

I'm not convinced that the preseason gameplan against the Lions was much different from the Pats' normal gameplan against young QBs.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Pre-Post Game Observations

I didn't say it was not a worry, only the least of my worries. If the offense is
this bad, I would agree with you, 6-10. It wasn't the defense that made this
team 14-2 last year.

Partly it was.