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The Great Derek Wolfe Debate!!


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Wolfe weighed in at 295 for the combine. Less than 2 weeks ago. Now weighs in at 280?
That's kinda light for a two gap end in the 3-4.

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280 lbs. Yeah...he ain't getting drafted by us.
 
That's quite a difference and a bit of a red flag, why would he drop 15lbs in 2 weeks?

Stressed out by all the pressure Patsdoerer is putting him under
 
To patsderoer...

You mocked me for going with a scouting report and told me to watch with my own eyes. I watched the video as you requested and did a play by play breakdown of what I saw.

If you wanted me to cheerlead him, sorry to disappoint you. I did try and be unbiased and mentioned multiple plays where he did a solid job and even impressed me. If I wanted to be overly critical and negative, I wouldn't have even bothered giving him any due praise. As it is, I went so far as to praise what I thought he showed solid ability in and the kind of scheme that he would probably best benefit in. Hell, he did put in good effort when taking on double teams but there is a difference between giving good effort and actually being able to use strength to get through.

As for the jogging mentality, it was more when a teammate would be making the tackle (I want to say the play where he tried to dive after the HB got past him and he dove away from the LOS) and he didn't put in the effort I would have liked to have seen by getting up and at least getting into the pile of tacklers. This also included plays where the HB ran to the outside and (again, may just simply be a speed issue) he didn't show great speed getting down the LOS to make a tackle.

If you want to have a discussion about Wolfe and other players, I'll be more than happy to have a discussion with you. If all you want to do is troll or mock than best wishes and I'll see my out of this thread.
 
Way too civilized DH253. Your kind aren't welcome in these parts. Cya.
 
DH523 said:
To patsderoer...

You left out a lot of important information regarding Wolfe and his plays. What happened was that a lot of time you didnt see the forest because of the trees.

The most important thing in that vid which you left out, was that at no time the QB held the ball for more than 3sec from the snap. After 3 sec, either the throw was made or the Qb was scrambling. In fact, many times, the throw was made after only 2 sec. And thats because the pocket was shrinking all the time on him, and pretty fast too, thanks in large part to efforts of Wolfe. And thats against Sec competition, not some bottom dwellers from the worst conference.

So to impress you, Wolfe had to shed his blocker in no time and get very fast to the QB, otherwise you would have put it as "gets stood up and QB throws on time" "easily checked by the double team" . And wolfe did just that more than enough to show that he has great playmaking ability, but still he's 4-5round material for you. That is why I mocked you, and I put out the Wilfork comparison.

The thing is, the QB had no time to make reads, only 3 sec the whole game, after that the ball was already in the air, or the QB was scrambling. Thats great pass rushing against one of the top programs in the nation.

Having said that, lets review some of your list Derek Wolfe vs Vanderbilt 2011 - YouTube

DH523 said:
#1: Gets stood up 1-1 and QB gets the pass off in time.
2nd and 10. From under center, QB throws the ball backwards to his HB, HB runs and gives it back to the QB, and then runs past Wolfe. While this happens Wolfe sheds his blocker, correctly identifies that the HB doesnt have the ball so he doenst tackle him, so he moves towards the QB, which "gets out the ball on time", yeah right. The QB "got out the ball on time" to avoid the sack.

The QB "got the ball out on time" to make the throw and avoid the sack, but he didnt had any more time to waste, because Wolfe was all over him. Solid solid play here from Wolfe. Ofcourse, you treat it like its nothing, Wolfe just "got stood up".

DH523 said:
#4: Gets stood up and knocked down after the HB helps out. QB nearly runs into him for a sack. Not a good thing to see.
Wolfe didnt get knocked down, it was him who, while double teamed, jumped laterally to tackle the running qb, and ended up on the ground.

DH523 said:
#5: Gets taken out of the play and ends up lying on top of the OL.

Wolfe gets double teamed and taken out of play, and the RB runs through a big hole 3 yards away from Wolfe. Did you mention the double team which took wolfe out of the play? The double team didnt move him back, but it make it impossible for Wolfe to get to the RB in time. There was also holding from Vanderbilt OL. Just well executed offense from one of the top systems in the country. No way is Wolfe to blame here.

DH523 said:
#6: Gets stood up and the HB scores a TD running directly past the lane next to Wolfe.

This is not true. No, the lane through which the Rb run was 2 lanes laterally away from Wolfe, not the one directly next to him at the LOS.

Wolfe's teammate to his left gets pushed back 2 yards by a double team, which creates a massive hole for the RB to run through. The Rb does just that, Wolfe who is 2 lanes away, jumps laterally to stop the RB, but cannot complete the tackle as the Rb had too much speed.

Not the fault of Wolfe at all, it was the fault of his teammate to his left, who was pushed back 2 yards by a double team, and thus a massive hole was created for the RB to run for the TD.

The direct lane next to Wolfe, to his left was the line with the painted marks for the yards. That was not the lane through which the RB run at the LOS.
The lane through which the RB run at the LOS was the lane to the left of the painted mark, as seen from Wolfe's perspective. Wolfe covered the lane of the painted marks, but couldnt get there in time for the lane through which the RB run for the TD.


DH523 said:
#7: Struggles to get off the block and completely misses the HB as he tries to tackle him, diving away from the initial LOS. Another pretty ugly sight.
This one is a clear mistake from Wolfe, as he chooses the outside of the blocker to get to the RB, and the RB runs through the inside. Clear mistake, Wolfe is at fault here.

DH523 said:
#8: Gets stood up and blown back a yard off the snap.
... by a double team. Why didnt you mention the double team? Again you present false information.
That double team leaves Wolfe's teammate to his left completely free to make the tackle, Rb sees that, and runs in opposite direction. But who cares, wolfe just "got stood up". Who cares that its a double team, who cares that, because of that double team, Wolfe's teammate was completely free to make a play should the RB run in their direction.


DH523 said:
#12: Gets engulfed in a double team and taken out of the play. Bad.
What do your write here. That double team allows one of his teammates to get completely free at the LOS, RB sees that open man, moves laterally and escapes the tackle, and then scrambles outside for minimal gain.
This is type of play that allowed Cinci to lead the nation in TFLs per game, and come second in the nation in sacks per game. All pretty much on Wolfe and the double teams he got.
You present Wolfe in a very bad light, when in fact Wolfe's double team helped one of his teammates to get free at the LOS, and, if that teammate didnt miss the tackle, it would have been another TFL for Cinci. Credit to the RB, but he had to move laterally to avoid the tackle at the LOS, he lost plenty of his speed and then he scrambled for minimal gain on the outside.
"Bad" LOL. What is very very bad is your "analysis".

DH523 said:
#13: Gets past his OL but doesn't have the speed or lateral ability to get to the sideline to make a tackle attempt.
What happened here is that Wolfe basically destroyed Vanderbilt play and stopped them on 3rd down.
It was 3rd down and 5.
Vanderbilt designed the play for the QB to run inside to the left with a couple of tacklers in front of him.
Edit: Inside the WR and outside the OL line to the left. Thats where the QB was designed to run first, before Wolfe had other ideas. Edited to clear an eventual confusion.
If the QB managed to do that, it would have been an easy 3rd down conversion, as the tacklers running in front of him would have taken out the Cinci defenders, and QB would have dived for the 1st down.

What happened was that Wolfe shed his blocker in no time and completely shutdown the inside running option for the QB. The Qb was forced to run on the outside, around his WR and the Cinci CB, lost his speed and time doing that, and the Cinci defenders got to him well before he reached the yellow line.
Great, great play from Wolfe to force a punt from Vanderbilt, yet you managed to spin it as "he doesn't have the speed or lateral ability to get to the sideline to make a tackle attempt". Yeah right, he just has the ability to force punts on 3rd downs with great plays, like he showed it in this play.

DH523 said:
#17: Gets pushed off by the G to the T. QB scrambles past him for a solid gain. Shows good hustle but again misses the tackle at the end.

What you write here again. "Solid gain"? That solid gain = nothing.
It was 3rd and 15.
The scrambling QB was stopped well short of the yellow mark, 6 yards short. Vanderbilt had to punt.
Again a great play from Wolfe(and his coaches, I give them credit).

No, what happened was that Wolfe was not pushed off from the G to the T, he run from the start of the snap to the T. He took the G with him, and his teammate to his right was left completely free to run and pressure the QB.
His teammate did just that. Vanderbilt was toasted once that happened.

Wolfe's teammate runs straight to the QB, rb sees him, tries to block him, Wolfe's teammate pushed the rb aside, the G comes back from Wolfe to block Wolfe's teammate, and in doing so it destroys the pocket. QB has to start scrambling, otherwise next second the pocket collapses on him.

The Qb started scrambling and running towards the yellow line, but he is stopped well short, 6 yards short. Vanderbilt has to punt, and Cinci get the ball back.

Great, great play from Wolfe and his coaches, perfectly executed. Yet you managed to spin it as some amazing bad play of Wolfe.
Yeah, Wolfe misses the tackle, who cares, there were plenty of Cinci defenders to tackle the running QB who had to run 25 yards before he got to the yellow line.
Vanderbilt has to punt. The play was perfectly designed and executed to destroy the pocket and force the Qb either to throw it away or to start scrambling. With a little bit of luck, wolfe's teammate could even have gotten himself a sack. Doesnt matter, once the QB started to run he was hopeless, he started to run from 10 yards from behind LOS, so he needed to run 25 yards to get to the yellow line. He was stopped well before that.


Allright, that's enough. I have completely exposed your analysis. For me, the only bad play of Wolfe was #7, when he chose the wrong way to get to the RB, and the RB took advantage to run for a 1st down.

He showed he's a great pass rusher, that even double teams can hardly stop him, and those double teams allowed other teammates to get free and make plays. And when he is taken 1-1, the Qb has like 3sec to get the ball out, after that he better start to scramble to make something happen.

No way is he a 4-5th rounder, when a guy like Reyes who put up much worse production playing in the same conference same position is projected to go late 1st/early2nd.
 
Last edited:
You left out a lot of important information regarding Wolfe and his plays. What happened was that a lot of time you didnt see the forest because of the trees.

The most important thing in that vid which you left out, was that at no time the QB held the ball for more than 3sec from the snap. After 3 sec, either the throw was made or the Qb was scrambling. In fact, many times, the throw was made after only 2 sec. And thats because the pocket was shrinking all the time on him, and pretty fast too, thanks in large part to efforts of Wolfe. And thats against Sec competition, not some bottom dwellers from the worst conference.

So to impress you, Wolfe had to shed his blocker in no time and get very fast to the QB, otherwise you would have put it as "gets stood up and QB throws on time" "easily checked by the double team" . And wolfe did just that more than enough to show that he has great playmaking ability, but still he's 4-5round material for you. That is why I mocked you, and I put out the Wilfork comparison.

The thing is, the QB had no time to make reads, only 3 sec the whole game, after that the ball was already in the air, or the QB was scrambling. Thats great pass rushing against one of the top programs in the nation.

Having said that, lets review some of your list Derek Wolfe vs Vanderbilt 2011 - YouTube


2nd and 10. From under center, QB throws the ball backwards to his HB, HB runs and gives it back to the QB, and then runs past Wolfe. While this happens Wolfe sheds his blocker, correctly identifies that the HB doesnt have the ball so he doenst tackle him, so he moves towards the QB, which "gets out the ball on time", yeah right. The QB "got out the ball on time" to avoid the sack.

The QB "got the ball out on time" to make the throw and avoid the sack, but he didnt had any more time to waste, because Wolfe was all over him. Solid solid play here from Wolfe. Ofcourse, you treat it like its nothing, Wolfe just "got stood up".


Wolfe didnt get knocked down, it was him who, while double teamed, jumped laterally to tackle the running qb, and ended up on the ground.



Wolfe gets double teamed and taken out of play, and the RB runs through a big hole 3 yards away from Wolfe. Did you mention the double team which took wolfe out of the play? The double team didnt move him back, but it make it impossible for Wolfe to get to the RB in time. There was also holding from Vanderbilt OL. Just well executed offense from one of the top systems in the country. No way is Wolfe to blame here.



This is not true. No, the lane through which the Rb run was 2 lanes laterally away from Wolfe, not the one directly next to him at the LOS.

Wolfe's teammate to his left gets pushed back 2 yards by a double team, which creates a massive hole for the RB to run through. The Rb does just that, Wolfe who is 2 lanes away, jumps laterally to stop the RB, but cannot complete the tackle as the Rb had too much speed.

Not the fault of Wolfe at all, it was the fault of his teammate to his left, who was pushed back 2 yards by a double team, and thus a massive hole was created for the RB to run for the TD.

The direct lane next to Wolfe, to his left was the line with the painted marks for the yards. That was not the lane through which the RB run at the LOS.
The lane through which the RB run at the LOS was the lane to the left of the painted mark, as seen from Wolfe's perspective. Wolfe covered the lane of the painted marks, but couldnt get there in time for the lane through which the RB run for the TD.



This one is a clear mistake from Wolfe, as he chooses the outside of the blocker to get to the RB, and the RB runs through the inside. Clear mistake, Wolfe is at fault here.


... by a double team. Why didnt you mention the double team? Again you present false information.
That double team leaves Wolfe's teammate to his left completely free to make the tackle, Rb sees that, and runs in opposite direction. But who cares, wolfe just "got stood up". Who cares that its a double team, who cares that, because of that double team, Wolfe's teammate was completely free to make a play should the RB run in their direction.



What do your write here. That double team allows one of his teammates to get completely free at the LOS, RB sees that open man, moves laterally and escapes the tackle, and then scrambles outside for minimal gain.
This is type of play that allowed Cinci to lead the nation in TFLs per game, and come second in the nation in sacks per game. All pretty much on Wolfe and the double teams he got.
You present Wolfe in a very bad light, when in fact Wolfe's double team helped one of his teammates to get free at the LOS, and, if that teammate didnt miss the tackle, it would have been another TFL for Cinci. Credit to the RB, but he had to move laterally to avoid the tackle at the LOS, he lost plenty of his speed and then he scrambled for minimal gain on the outside.
"Bad" LOL. What is very very bad is your "analysis".


What happened here is that Wolfe basically destroyed Vanderbilt play and stopped them on 3rd down.
It was 3rd down and 5.
Vanderbilt designed the play for the QB to run inside to the left with a couple of tacklers in front of him. If the QB managed to do that, it would have been an easy 3rd down conversion, as the tacklers running in front of him would have taken out the Cinci defenders, and QB would have dived for the 1st down.

What happened was that Wolfe shed his blocker in no time and completely shutdown the inside running option for the QB. The Qb was forced to run on the outside, around his WR and the Cinci CB, lost his speed and time doing that, and the Cinci defenders got to him well before he reached the yellow line.
Great, great play from Wolfe to force a punt from Vanderbilt, yet you managed to spin it as "he doesn't have the speed or lateral ability to get to the sideline to make a tackle attempt". Yeah right, he just has the ability to force punts on 3rd downs with great plays, like he showed it in this play.



What you write here again. "Solid gain"? That solid gain = nothing.
It was 3rd and 15.
The scrambling QB was stopped well short of the yellow mark, 6 yards short. Vanderbilt had to punt.
Again a great play from Wolfe(and his coaches, I give them credit).

No, what happened was that Wolfe was not pushed off from the G to the T, he run from the start of the snap to the T. He took the G with him, and his teammate to his right was left completely free to run and pressure the QB.
His teammate did just that. Vanderbilt was toasted once that happened.

Wolfe's teammate runs straight to the QB, rb sees him, tries to block him, Wolfe's teammate pushed the rb aside, the G comes back from Wolfe to block Wolfe's teammate, and in doing so it destroys the pocket. QB has to start scrambling, otherwise next second the pocket collapses on him.

The Qb started scrambling and running towards the yellow line, but he is stopped well short, 6 yards short. Vanderbilt has to punt, and Cinci get the ball back.

Great, great play from Wolfe and his coaches, perfectly executed. Yet you managed to spin it as some amazing bad play of Wolfe.
Yeah, Wolfe misses the tackle, who cares, there were plenty of Cinci defenders to tackle the running QB who had to run 25 yards before he got to the yellow line.
Vanderbilt has to punt. The play was perfectly designed and executed to destroy the pocket and force the Qb either to throw it away or to start scrambling. With a little bit of luck, wolfe's teammate could even have gotten himself a sack. Doesnt matter, once the QB started to run he was hopeless, he started to run from 10 yards from behind LOS, so he needed to run 25 yards to get to the yellow line. He was stopped well before that.


Allright, that's enough. I have completely exposed your analysis. For me, the only bad play of Wolfe was #7, when he chose the wrong way to get to the RB, and the RB took advantage to run for a 1st down.

He showed he's a great pass rusher, that even double teams can hardly stop him, and those double teams allowed other teammates to get free and make plays. And when he is taken 1-1, the Qb has like 3sec to get the ball out, after that he better start to scramble to make something happen.

No way is he a 4-5th rounder, when a guy like Reyes who put up much worse production playing in the same conference same position is projected to go late 1st/early2nd.

We get it....Wolfe is the 2nd coming of Richard Seymour. Give it a rest. Given his size and weight, there is no chance in hell he gets drafted by us.
 
We get it....Wolfe is the 2nd coming of Richard Seymour. Give it a rest. Given his size and weight, there is no chance in hell he gets drafted by us.

His size at the combine was pretty ideal, 6'5" and 295. At this weight and size performed at the combine, and put up solid numbers across the board.
"Us" ? You are a member of the talent evaluation team for the defense? Maybe even the most important member of that team? If that is so, I can understand why the Pats defence is in such terrible shape, and needed 2 miracles to escape with the win against the Ravens.
 
His size at the combine was pretty ideal, 6'5" and 295. At this weight and size performed at the combine, and put up solid numbers across the board.
"Us" ? You are a member of the talent evaluation team for the defense? Maybe even the most important member of that team? If that is so, I can understand why the Pats defence is in such terrible shape, and needed 2 miracles to escape with the win against the Ravens.

And after 2 weeks at his pro day, he weighed in at 280lbs. And stop generalizing my comments.
 
This Thread is awesome!!
jester.gif
 
:eek:

I don't think I've ever seen such a commitment to delusion in my entire life. Props, man, for sticking to your guns.
 
Per Mike Reiss the Cincinnatti Enquirere beat writer Joe Reedy reported the Patriots held a private workout for three Cincinnatti Bearcats on Wednesday: RB Isaih Pead a TE Adrien Robinson and DT Derek Wolfe
 
I wonder how much Wolfe weighed at that workout; the 295 from the combine,
or the 280 from Cinci's pro day.
 
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