The last 2 times Brady wasn't the starter

[Simpelton]

compare

I don't think you're using the word correctly. Of course you can compare. you can compare anything, What you can't do is equivalate. Agree that 08 is not 16, or 20, but it's still an example of BB taking lesser talent at QB and still punching above his weight class with it.

 

[XLIX]

Who cares. If you gonna have a bad season then this coming year is one to have it. Lawrence is a once in a generation talent. Why win games at that point if they start off badly. I think Lawrence will be a good pro. Not to mentioned that you will have cap space to put more pieces around him.

We seem to get a "once a generation" talent every couple years or so. Andrew Luck was a once-a-generation talent. The Mannings were each once-a-generation talent. Joe Burrow is a once-a-generation talent. Now we only have to wait 1 year for the next once-a-generation talent with Lawrence. Then there will be another one after him within a couple years.

 

[Simpelton]

That's nonsense. He was the league MVP in 2017, for crying out loud.

Was that before or after he lost a shootout to a career backup QB?

 

[sb1]

Was that before or after he lost a shootout to a career backup QB?

Eh, can’t really blame him for that. Yes they lost but that imo was the best he has ever been from start to finish in a playoff game in his career and that’s saying something especially since the Eagles defense was no tomato can.

He has also been nowhere close to that level since that game.

 

[primetime]

Was that before or after he lost a shootout to a career backup QB?

Yeah, I think Brady was fading towards the latter half of 2018 and all of last year and I'm not lamenting his defection the way Deus or someone is, but man 2017 is not the argument here.

 

[fightingirish595]

Was that before or after he lost a shootout to a career backup QB?

a game that he set records in?

living up to the username with that one

 

[Nehalem]

If Stidham is no better than Matt Cassel we're in for a long season.[/QUOTE]

And BB >>> Tomlin.

We’re probably going to get thumped by the Chiefs but I think we can hang with the Ravens. I see that offense taking a sizeable step back. And Bluetooth went away so who knows.

Why do you assume the Pats get thumped by the Chiefs.

They should have won in 2019 if not for the refs stealing the game from us. And that is a game where Brady threw for 169 yards and our leading rusher had 33

 

[Kontradiction]

Our OL is good, if we get Andrews back. We have good young receivers and we still have Edelman.

We do? Who has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are a “good young receiver” on this team. Neither Harry nor Meyers proved that last year, though the former was injured to start the year.

TE is an issue but it was an issue last year too, so nothing changes there.

Except for Brady to Stidham and two new TEs, of course.

We have a very good run game that will be better if Andrews and Wynn are in the lineup.

This is a fair point.

One thing we have that is way better than the 2008 team, the D in 2008 really showed its age. Especially the secondary which developed some serious holes due to the age of players like Harrison and Samuel. That was the unit that failed us in the Superbowl and it kept right on failing us throughout that following year. Right now we actually have a very solid defensive unit, and our secondary is one of the best in the business with superstar talent at the top and good depth behind it. If I have a concern it's with the age of the Flying McCourty Brothers but they haven't really slowed down yet, so fingers crossed

The secondary is the best in the NFL. It’s the front that’s the question mark. Who is the toilet plugging 0-tech? Will Uche be able to compete immediately? What about Jennings?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think you're using the word correctly. Of course you can compare. you can compare anything, What you can't do is equivalate. Agree that 08 is not 16, or 20, but it's still an example of BB taking lesser talent at QB and still punching above his weight class with it.

Ok thanks.

 

[goheels22002]

The reason we won't be is the schedule. It will be a lot like last year where the D will keep us in games but at the end of the day, Stidham is going to have to make big-time throws. Devlin just retired so they need another road grader out there or our still sizable stable of RB's will be stuck in the mud like last year. The O-line should be better but without Scar...who knows...

There's going to be a significant step back for this team next year and that's okay. Losing a generational talent like Brady isn't something most teams can come back from in a year or even two or three.

The Patriots replaced Devlin with an extraordinary fullback Danny Vitale, a 4-year veteran who was underutilized by Green Bay and Cleveland. Josh and Belichick will get the most out of his blocking, rushing and receiving skills.

 

[goheels22002]

I understand your position. I suspect that Belichick strongly disagrees. The team went 12-4 last year and could have easily been 13-3. Perhaps the schedule is worth 2 games. So that has this season at 10-6 or 11-5 if personal were equal to the value produced in 2019.

Most folks here are predicting 5-8 wins and no playoffs, hoping for 9 as you do. The bettors in Vegas has us at 8-9 wins, with a current line of 8.5 wins. The over has us at 9 or more wins and a likely playoff berth. The under has us at 8 wins or less, and likely out of the playoffs.

So, let's see where we are. I understand that we might have a significant free agent pickup, but since a significant pickup would likely be accompanied by a trade of Thuney, I'll ignore such possible changes.

HOW MUCH WORSE IS THE 2020 TEAM, COMPARED TO 2019
We are worse at QB and LB, and better in almost all other units.

SPECIAL TEAMS (better)
P - same
K - better
ST - We've lost Ebner. King (IR last year), Slater, Bolden and Bethel are back. We've added Davis.

DEFENSE (a bit worse)
DL - a bit worse (lost Shelton; added Allen, have a more experience Winovich and Cowart)
LB - worse (the rookies can't make up for the loss of Van Noy, Collins and Roberts)
CB - the same
S - the same (Phillips and Duggar should be able to make up for the loss of Harmon, and for the fact that McCourty and Chung may be in their last years)

OFFENSE (you judge)
QB - worse (but how much compared to 2019 Brady)
WR - better (more health for Edelman, sans and Harry; more experience for Harry and Myers; the addition of Byrd and Lee). This unit is still one player away from AVERAGE
RB - same (Harris does know the system better)
TE - much better (not a high bar, but I like the rookies)
OT - better (we had Newhouse starting; Wynn, Casnnon and Cajuste are healthier)
OC - Andrews and Froholdt are both healthier, and an upgrade over Karras
OG - The starters are back for now. Froholdt is a fine backup. Enwenu and Eluemunor are OK as our end of the roster backups.

The linebackers look pretty exciting to me with the three drafted plares and the UFDAs that bring some great skills plus other baggage.

I agree with you assessment of the WR group. I am absolutely certain that there will be some good veterans displaced by that huge class of early round WRs available. Belichick didn't draft anybody at WR because he has two 2nd year WRs who look like they will contribute. He needs one more veteran to replace Dorsett - probably in the mold of Deon Branch. I expect a signing before training camp.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Was that before or after he lost a shootout to a career backup QB?

Oh you got him that time! Brilliant retort! Brady did play horrible defense that day. How you ever arrived at "Simpleton" for a screen name is beyond all of us.

 

[Nehalem]

Yeah, I think Brady was fading towards the latter half of 2018 and all of last year and I'm not lamenting his defection the way Deus or someone is, but man 2017 is not the argument here.

Saying Brady was "fading" toward the end of 2018 is a lot like saying that Gronk was starting to fade in 2017. It just isn't true.

The last 4 games of 2018 featured Brady
Throwing for 358 yards and 3 TDs against Miami. You know what game
The Pittsburgh game where the offense looked terrible. Then Gordon "took a break from football" a few days later. Coincidence.
24-12 win over Buffalo where yeah the Passing game looked bad
38-3 romp over the Jets where Brady threw 4 TDs

This was followed by 2 playoff wins with Brady throwing over 340 yards and the Patriots averaged 39 points.

 

[Deus Irae]

Was that before or after he lost a shootout to a career backup QB?

This follow up just makes you look like an idiot. Why would you post it?

 

[primetime]

Saying Brady was "fading" toward the end of 2018 is a lot like saying that Gronk was starting to fade in 2017. It just isn't true.

The last 4 games of 2018 featured Brady
Throwing for 358 yards and 3 TDs against Miami. You know what game
The Pittsburgh game where the offense looked terrible. Then Gordon "took a break from football" a few days later. Coincidence.
24-12 win over Buffalo where yeah the Passing game looked bad
38-3 romp over the Jets where Brady threw 4 TDs

This was followed by 2 playoff wins with Brady throwing over 340 yards and the Patriots averaged 39 points.

The Pittsburgh and Buffalo games were real ugly and the Super Bowl was ugly. I think he started missing passes in the latter half of the year, beginning with the Titans game (which was also very ugly), and the trend continued into the playoffs. He still had some stellar performances - they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl without it - but the signs of decline started creeping in.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Pittsburgh and Buffalo games were real ugly and the Super Bowl was ugly. I think he started missing passes in the latter half of the year, beginning with the Titans game (which was also very ugly), and the trend continued into the playoffs. He still had some stellar performances - they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl without it - but the signs of decline started creeping in.

You misspelled "injury".

 

[sb1]

The Pittsburgh and Buffalo games were real ugly and the Super Bowl was ugly. I think he started missing passes in the latter half of the year, beginning with the Titans game (which was also very ugly), and the trend continued into the playoffs. He still had some stellar performances - they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl without it - but the signs of decline started creeping in.

On the flip side of that the run game at the end of 2018 was phenomenal. Rushed for almost 300 yards against Buffalo. Almost 180 a game. I’d put it right up there side by side with what the Ravens did last year and the league had no answer for it. They were absolute money in the red zone. I hope we see it again. If we do it makes Stidham’s job that much easier.

 

[Whitt25]

I don't think you're using the word correctly. Of course you can compare. you can compare anything, What you can't do is equivalate.

What? Who the hell taught you that? There are things that absolutely can't be compared to each other. That's why the word incomparable exists. Also, equate is a synonym for compare, so, yeah, he is using the word correctly. Another thing, equivalate isn't a word. Equate is a word. Equivalent is a word. But not equivalate.

Now let me try to get on topic. I find it convenient you exclude the 2000 season. You know, that time they went 5-11? Brady wasn't the starter then, either, but BB was there. You can say he's definitely learned a lot since then, but it doesn't mean you can ignore it. It was a Patriot season under BB without Tom Brady, too.

 

[TBR]

The last 2 times involved Super Bowl caliber teams. Cassel took over a team with a record setting offense that was one fluke play away from 19-0, and Garoppolo/Brissett started on a team that went on to win the Super Bowl with Brady (and only Brady could have won that SB).

Put any of those guys, at those points in their career, on a squad like 2006, 2009, 2013, 2019, and they wouldn't have made the playoffs.

 

[sb1]

The last 2 times involved Super Bowl caliber teams. Cassel took over a team with a record setting offense that was one fluke play away from 19-0, and Garoppolo/Brissett started on a team that went on to win the Super Bowl with Brady (and only Brady could have won that SB).

Put any of those guys, at those points in their career, on a squad like 2006, 2009, 2013, 2019, and they wouldn't have made the playoffs.

The defense in 08 was far from Super Bowl caliber.