Why has Bill the GM been so poor the past decade?

[BennyBledsoe]

One of the strangest things I've noticed is acting like there aren't phases to a coach's lifespan. They act like saying he's not good now is the same as saying he was NEVER good. He WAS a great coach, he COULD identify talent, he WAS innovative. Is he NOW? No. Was he? Yes. Absolute Hall of Fame legend? Yes. Should he be released from his duties as GM, and if he refuses, released from his duties as HC? Also yes.

 

[Real fan 02]

Let's go a step further.

Since 2014, these were the Patriots offensive first round picks

-Wynn: an undersized lineman who immediately got injured and floundered out until they decided he wasn't worth keeping
-Sony Michel: was good for one year. Yeah he was important for a Super Bowl. But he was another guy that sort of fell off and we didn't keep longterm.
-N'Keal Harry: another player who immediately got injured and went on to be one of the biggest WR draft busts ever. after 3 years in New England, he went to Chicago and only played 7 games and was never a starter, got released and is just a practice squad guy in Minnesota
-Mac Jones: Bust QB who got worse every year.
-Cole Strange: Another lineman that is looking highly overrated and not worth where he was drafted, maybe it's early enough where he develops into something.

So we essentially got zero to very little value whenever we invested our top picks in offense. Sony was easily the only one that can be categorized as a hit and only because he was good for 5 or so games at the end of a year we won a title. In total he ended up being mediocre for where he was drafted.

Let's go to the second round since 2014

-Thuney: that worked out, but he's not here and we didn't pay him.
-Tyquan Thornton: A WR who is a clear bust that is barely productive.
-Jimmy Garoppolo: A back up QB who was only asked to start four games during his tenure here and got injured after a game and a half.

Okay let's go third round since 2014

-Jacoby Brissett: back up who played one game and got injured. He's a solid back up but he's a pick we got a single game of value for.
-Antonio Garcia: an offensive lineman who never played.
-Damian Harris: This was a hit. A strong hit as well. He produced and was our best RB for a few years. But again, we didn't keep him longterm
-Yodney Cajuste: a lineman who got constantly injured, barely played and was released.
-Devin Asiasi: LOL
-Dalton Keene: TROLOLOL


Okay so in the last decade, we made 14 picks on offense in the top 3 rounds. 8 were clear busts. Cole Strange is teetering on questionable for being a bust. 2 were back up QB's that combined for providing 4 games of value for the team and both got injured when they were asked to contribute a small amount. So you can't say we used high value picks on starters there. 3 were bonafide starters that hit with our top picks. That's a hit rate of 21% on offense with our picks in the first 100 spots of the draft.

Now let's look at the hits. Thuney who was a great lineman that contributed for years. Then two RB's who are low value positions, both of which we didn't extend beyond their rookie contract because we didn't find the value there. Good pick ups, but when 2 of your 3 hits in a decade are guys at the position that everyone can get value out of it and aren't viewed as longterm adds, it's kinda bad.

Very, very impressive!! We haven't even talked about the guys drafted with injuries. Sony had knee issues, Malcom Mitchell, barmore to name a few. I always got confused on why Bill would draft guys with serious injury history or concerns and expect then to miraculously become healthier. Just head scratching.. also ignoring the patriots draft scouts as he was reported doing that ticked off kraft.

 

[archstanton543]

Very, very impressive!! We haven't even talked about the guys drafted with injuries. Sony had knee issues, Malcom Mitchell, barmore to name a few. I always got confused on why Bill would draft guys with serious injury history or concerns and expect then to miraculously become healthier. Just head scratching.. also ignoring the patriots draft scouts as he was reported doing that ticked off kraft.

Don't forget Easley.

 

[Real fan 02]

Don't forget Easley.

That's right had knee issues in college.

 

[captain stone]

Don't forget Easley.

That's right had knee issues in college.

And character/work ethic issues as well.

 

[Real fan 02]

And character/work ethic issues as well.

Yes, that as well.

 

[203Pat]

Don't forget Easley.

Ras-I Dowling.

 

[Easywolf32]

1. A disregard for positional value

•Drafting a rb in the first round in 2018
•Drafting a guard in the first round in 2022
•Drafting multiple specialists in rounds 4-5

2. A disregard for team need

•Drafting a slot cb in round 2 in 2018 when you had jonathan jones
•Drafting a cb in round 2 in 2019 when you had gilmore & jc jackson
•Drafting a box safety in round 3 in 2023 when you had dugger, peppers & phillips

3. Reaches

The entire 2022 draft was reaches. Strange was a projected 3rd round pick, thornton round 4 & jack jones undrafted. Mapu & nearly every pick from rds 4-5 was a reach in this draft.

I’ll also throw in not factoring in analytics enough. The pats keep drafting older players recently. They have to draft the best player available at high value positions while accounting for team needs.

This exactly, in the past though, free agency signings also seemed way better. Defensive drafting (besides some 2nd round CB head scratchers over the years) and free agent signings have veen pretty damn good over the years, but almost all the offensive picks and free agent signings have been total ass man. Like total ass.

 

[Easywolf32]

Now we're gonna lose Drake Maye so lil Zappe can get his 5 mins of fame...

 

[goheels22002]

1. A disregard for positional value

•Drafting a rb in the first round in 2018
•Drafting a guard in the first round in 2022
•Drafting multiple specialists in rounds 4-5

2. A disregard for team need

•Drafting a slot cb in round 2 in 2018 when you had jonathan jones
•Drafting a cb in round 2 in 2019 when you had gilmore & jc jackson
•Drafting a box safety in round 3 in 2023 when you had dugger, peppers & phillips

3. Reaches

The entire 2022 draft was reaches. Strange was a projected 3rd round pick, thornton round 4 & jack jones undrafted. Mapu & nearly every pick from rds 4-5 was a reach in this draft.

I’ll also throw in not factoring in analytics enough. The pats keep drafting older players recently. They have to draft the best player available at high value positions while accounting for team needs.

The draft is only a small part of a GMs toolbox to build a team. We're talking about seven or eight kids added to a starting point of a 90-man roster. These kids, except for maybe a top pick are depth players, particularly when you are pick in the last few slots in every round.

Tell me about his trades and free agent veterans since 2013.

 

[lancerman]

The draft is only a small part of a GMs toolbox to build a team. We're talking about seven or eight kids added to a starting point of a 90-man roster. These kids, except for maybe a top pick are depth players, particularly when you are pick in the last few slots in every round.

Tell me about his trades and free agent veterans since 2013.

Sort of....

Actually in any given 3-4 year span, you are talking 21-28 players who should be on an undervalued contract for their position. If you get a decent amount of production out of them, you then have the luxury to make better spends in free agency. Also if you are good at drafting, you can cheaply replenish losses on the roster.

Because we are bad at drafting we end up seeing the team wittled away each year and over pay on guys that aren't all that worth it out of need.

 

[archstanton543]

The draft is only a small part of a GMs toolbox to build a team. We're talking about seven or eight kids added to a starting point of a 90-man roster. These kids, except for maybe a top pick are depth players, particularly when you are pick in the last few slots in every round.

Tell me about his trades and free agent veterans since 2013.

I think that you should stick from 2018 until now. That's what the poster is talking about. Trades and free agent signings made a decade ago have little to no bearing on the team in 2023.

 

[jmt57]

Ironic that this article by Mike Reiss was published just hours prior to New England gaining a rare 2023 victory. The column focuses only on the period of time beginning with the SB53 win over the Rams, and does not delve into any of the prior drafts/personnel decisions. Reiss sticks to the facts, laying the timeline out in black and white like a well trained prosecuting attorney for the jury to contemplate.

Patriots timeline: How New England fell from Tom Brady and Super Bowls to Mac Jones and 2-10

On Feb. 3, 2019, the Pats won their sixth championship under Bill Belichick. It's been a slow descent to their current 2-10 record. Here's how it happened.

www.espn.com

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Don't forget Easley.

Don't forget Gronk. I know it's a gamble and it worked for Gronk but the majority of the time, it didn't work out.

 

[Patstopia]

Has anyone actually done a league comparison of every teams draft picks thru the years, aside from each teams bitter complaints of hindsight drafting and shoulda, woulda, coulda complaints that don't ignore team needs and are not based on fantasy football?

 

[VrabelJr]

Has anyone actually done a league comparison of every teams draft picks thru the years, aside from each teams bitter complaints of hindsight drafting and shoulda, woulda, coulda complaints that don't ignore team needs and are not based on fantasy football?

No it’s much easier to complain and pretend to be an expert

 

[goheels22002]

I think that you should stick from 2018 until now. That's what the poster is talking about. Trades and free agent signings made a decade ago have little to no bearing on the team in 2023.

Just going with the title of the thread about the past decade. And, Matthew Slater would probably beg to differ that decisions made ten years ago about who to keep on the roster are irrelevant.

2018 was the last year the Patriots had Gronk, Brady and Edelman together.

But looking back to 2018, my guess is that people here do not have problems guys still on the team like David Andrews, Jajuan Bentley, Deatrich Wise, Joe Cardona, Lawrence Guy, Jonathan Jones. Since then, they've added Matthew Judon, Kyle Dugger, Anfernee Jennings, Josh Uche, Rhamondre Stevenson, Hunter Henry, Zeke Elliott, etc. Looking over the past five years, the solid additions on defense far outweigh the same decisions with the offense.

We keep getting back to the QB and receiving corps. It's been a bust since Brady at QB which then leads to how to truly measure the quality of the receiving corps.

I stand by my early season confidence in the receiving corps. Any QB in the top 15 in the league (better than average) would have certainly put up many times the points than Mac Jones.

Don't get me wrong, though. I have been saying here for more than a year that Belichick should relinquish the GM duties and focus on coaching to get the record. The record is not for most wins by a GM. I hope Bob and Jonathan have the stones to make some changes.

 

[goheels22002]

Has anyone actually done a league comparison of every teams draft picks thru the years, aside from each teams bitter complaints of hindsight drafting and shoulda, woulda, coulda complaints that don't ignore team needs and are not based on fantasy football?

There have been comparisons done on the hits and misses of drafts of various teams factoring in injuries. As people are pointing out, the Patriots fared well in those comparisons with Scott Pioli and others in the from office. It's that the fast five years that look especially poor. No one from the 2019 class is still on the team for example. The teams that historically fare well in those comparisons are the Ravens, the 49ers, the Steelers, and in recent years the Eagles. Before 2020 the NY Giants were a stalwart.

Injuries are a big issue with draft success. Teams pick a solid player who gets hurt in his rookie or sophomore year through no fault of his own and it affects comparisons. That's true in all pro sports. Kids are coming into the pros with years of wear and tear on their bodies.

I will see if I can dig up a couple of those comparisons and post here.

 

[1960Pats]

Not true. Check your math.

Gronk left because he was beat up and tired of being coached hard.

Brady left because he saw greener pastures elsewhere (i.e. Evans, Godwin, solid D, etc...).

Thuney left because the Chiefs made him the HIGHEST paid interior lineman. He is now still the 5th highest paid guard in the league...mid-way thru his 5 year deal. We will see what happens to Onwenu this off season. I am afraid something similar will happen.

I never had less than an A in math.

Gronk retired because Bill threatened to send him to Cleveland rather than pay him. That was about money and not being coached too hard, which is really a dumb statement to make about Gronk. He won a SB the next time he played in the NYFL of course.

Brady left because Bill wanted him to play for half of what top QBs were making and at one year at a time. Brady wanted to finish his career here but Bill had to show the world that he and his century old buddy system was the key. That plus Bill and Bob didn't want to pay Brady. Brady also won a SB the next year he played.

Right, just as I said. Thuney left for money and is now a key to KCs OL. He also won a SB the next season he played. See a trend there?

And I mentioned Gilmore but I had him on Miami and not Dallas. Let's hope that he doesn't get another ring or some of you will be running through rings trying to defend more of the indefensible. Bill's penchant for dropping talent led to a severe decline in talent on the Pats, and our 3-10 record proves that my math is correct again.

 

[1960Pats]

There have been comparisons done on the hits and misses of drafts of various teams factoring in injuries. As people are pointing out, the Patriots fared well in those comparisons with Scott Pioli and others in the from office. It's that the fast five years that look especially poor. No one from the 2019 class is still on the team for example. The teams that historically fare well in those comparisons are the Ravens, the 49ers, the Steelers, and in recent years the Eagles. Before 2020 the NY Giants were a stalwart.

Injuries are a big issue with draft success. Teams pick a solid player who gets hurt in his rookie or sophomore year through no fault of his own and it affects comparisons. That's true in all pro sports. Kids are coming into the pros with years of wear and tear on their bodies.

I will see if I can dig up a couple of those comparisons and post here.

What some fans here don't want to see is how many of those drafted players were dropped. It started with Seymour but lately the number of quality players who were dumped without being adequately replaced is staggering. It's why some fans are thinking that the Pats may be tanking. It looks like it.