WR Depth Chart

[supafly]

You have to do the arithmetic.

You keep saying that Amendola will stay this year. Surely, Dobson and Edelman will stay.

We have Thompkins, Boyce and Harrison returning. And yet, Belichick finds the need to sign LeFell and is looking to sign Britt.

Boyce may have played his best football in the last three games. However, as of now, I would think that he is clearly the #5 receiver behind Edelman, Dobson, Amendola and LeFell.
And Boyce is defending his roster spot against Thompkins, Harrison, Britt and anyone else that Belichick brings in.

Obviously, there may be injuries, as there were last year at TE. However, as now Harrison, THompkins and maybe Britt are after Boyce's roster spot.

To put in another way, if Boyce is safe, Belichick is wasting a lot of time, money and effort. And Belichick doesn't do that.

Both Thompkins and Boyce are fighting for their spots, and Dobson just had surgery for a foot issue that has been plaguing him for months now. He'll miss OTAs/minis again himself, and that's if everything goes perfectly, he comes back in 3 months, and never injures it again. The bottom line is that ALL three of the rookie receivers are extremely raw, and while it's fair to think they can improve in year two, we aren't going to sit around depending on that to happen either.

If Belichick hadn't addressed the worst WR grouping of his entire time here-- possibly his entire career, I think a lot of us would have been shocked. Bringing in reasonably costing competition from guys who have proven themselves for years is a no-brainer.

As we know, the only reason that Boyce received any playing time whatsoever is due to the shoddy options in front of him coming up gimpy, or else he'd have been riding the pine for the whole 2013 season. That doesn't scream "lock" to me, nor does the fact that Thompkins totally disappeared from the months of mid-October to mid-January with a total of 11 receptions.

I'm assuming that 2/3 rookies make it, and that's if there aren't any injuries.

 

[hwc]

Dobson should be full recovered by May, June at the latest so I doubt he goes on PUP.

I hope you are right. Certainly many players recover well from surgery to repair Lis Franc sprains or stress fractures to foot bones. Unfortunately, many players never fully recover. Let's hope Dobson is one of the fortunate ones. He was the only one of the three rookie receivers last year that took advantage of the opportunity and showed the potential to develop into an NFL caliber WR.

 

[DocHoliday]

I think that Collie after a full season of health (concussion-wise) could also be in the mix.

Really believe this myself. Collie did really well given the circumstances. It would be silly to drop him now.

However the numbers don't stack well for him (not in order of depth chart):

1.) Dobson (lock)
2.) Edelman (lock)
3.) Amendola (lock)
4.) Slater (lock)
5.) Boyce (near lock)
6.) Thompkins/LaFell/Harrison/Collie

IF they carry 7, which is not unlikely, it might be possible.

 

[supafly]

Really believe this myself. Collie did really well given the circumstances. It would be silly to drop him now.

However the numbers don't stack well for him (not in order of depth chart):

1.) Dobson (lock)
2.) Edelman (lock)
3.) Amendola (lock)
4.) Slater (lock)
5.) Boyce (near lock)
6.) Thompkins/LaFell/Harrison/Collie

IF they carry 7, which is not unlikely, it might be possible.

I agree with you and Andy that Collie is definitely at least on our shadow roster, just from his hard work and dedication to learning our scheme alone.

One thing to remember is that things will look much differently on Aug or Sept 17th, as opposed to Mar 17th. The WR depth chart will see cuts, injuries, and guys who aren't picking things up properly enough. That could create a spot or two for Collie to back in at. If not, he could always be brought back during the season at some point, should the need arise. Hopefully it will not.

I agree that we could very well carry 6 WRs without including Slater, who I consider a ST only player. It may be worth it depending on other circumstances, and the fact that we brought in 3 rookies last year who could be kept with an eye towards the future.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Both Thompkins and Boyce are fighting for their spots, and Dobson just had surgery for a foot issue that has been plaguing him for months now. He'll miss OTAs/minis again himself, and that's if everything goes perfectly, he comes back in 3 months, and never injures it again. The bottom line is that ALL three of the rookie receivers are extremely raw, and while it's fair to think they can improve in year two, we aren't going to sit around depending on that to happen either.

If Belichick hadn't addressed the worst WR grouping of his entire time here-- possibly his entire career, I think a lot of us would have been shocked. Bringing in reasonably costing competition from guys who have proven themselves for years is a no-brainer.

As we know, the only reason that Boyce received any playing time whatsoever is due to the shoddy options in front of him coming up gimpy, or else he'd have been riding the pine for the whole 2013 season. That doesn't scream "lock" to me, nor does the fact that Thompkins totally disappeared from the months of mid-October to mid-January with a total of 11 receptions.

I'm assuming that 2/3 rookies make it, and that's if there aren't any injuries.

Well said.

I honestly don't get the comparisons to the early Brady years when posters say "we won with mediocre receiving talent" those were battle hardened veteran players and if nothing else knew the system and were tested. There isn't a WR on this roster that could carry Troy Brown's jock strap.

Worst receiving corp in my time watching this team. Yes, worst than 2006.

 

[supafly]

Yes, worst than 2006.

Oh, I definitely agree. Once Gronk went down and the defense was already so decimated, it was only a matter of time before someone sent us home.

It was very good to see them overachieve and do so well last year, which is a great mark of our coach and overall team makeup, but the WRs definitely needed some serious improvement. If anyone other than Dobson actually does anything, it can now be seen as a bonus--instead of hearing all offseason about how "they were really good last year, considering they were rookies."

 

[Triumph]

With 9 catches in his rookie season, I don't think Josh Boyce is a lock for anything. I think he'll be battling for the fifth WR spot, unless Dobson starts the season on PUP.

There was an opportunity the size of Vince Wilfork just sitting there for either Thompkins or Boyce to grab last year. Neither one could grab it and bring it in.

All 3 hit the rookie wall and all 3 were fighting injuries at some point.

Boyce needs to make the biggest leap of the 3.

 

[Brady6]

You have to do the arithmetic.

You keep saying that Amendola will stay this year. Surely, Dobson and Edelman will stay.

What are you talking about, I never said Amendola would stay, I said he is in competition with Boyce, Thompkins, Harrison and any others we add through UFA or the draft for one the final 1-2 WR spots on the 53 man roster.

To be completely honest I expect Amendola to be included in the trade of Ryan Mallett to Houston.

We have Thompkins, Boyce and Harrison returning. And yet, Belichick finds the need to sign LeFell and is looking to sign Britt.

That is because he was not happy with the receivers, if he had any confidence in Amendola he would not have resigned Edelman, and added LaFell.

Boyce may have played his best football in the last three games. However, as of now, I would think that he is clearly the #5 receiver behind Edelman, Dobson, Amendola and LeFell.
And Boyce is defending his roster spot against Thompkins, Harrison, Britt and anyone else that Belichick brings in.

I believe Boyce’s roster spot is more secure than Amendola. First, I think Boyce is a superior talent who can do things on the football field that very few receivers can do, second he is very young, third he is much cheaper over the next few years, fourth you expect too much from a rookie who missed all of OTAs and the beginning of camp due to a foot injury. I would be absolutely shocked if Boyce did not make the final 53 roster.

To put in another way, if Boyce is safe, Belichick is wasting a lot of time, money and effort. And Belichick doesn't do that.

Not really.

 

[Tunescribe]

No I do not hate him I am just looking a reality, if Revis, Steve Smith and others could not return a pick for their teams there is no way that Danny Amendola is going to net a pick for us. He has not played more than 49.2% of his teams snaps in any of the past three seasons, his production in terms of receptions, yards and touchdowns has decreased in every season since 2010, and he is nearly 29 years old coming off a torn groin. He is owed $20.5M over the next 4 seasons to any team that takes on his contract.

Hate has nothing to do with it I am just not blinded by my love for the player or by the fact that I refuse to admit that Belichick made the wrong choice with him or Welker. Posters like to make it out that I hate him because if they believe that they can ignore the very information I have provided in my post.

I give him credit for being a 600-700 yard per season WR because that is what he has been best case every single year since he entered the league in 2008. I do not believe in the seventh year leap, if others do than good for them, but they should not consider it hate because I assess Amendola based on what he has done in the league instead of what I think, hope, or wish he could do.

The Patriots generally carry six sometimes seven WRs.

Edelman
Dobson
LaFell
Boyce
Slater

Those five players I view as near locks to make the roster, so you have one or two spots left for Amendola, Thompkins, Harrison, and if they sign Britt, Collie or anyone else, plus any draft picks they may select.

Your whole argument boils down to condemning Amendola for his injury history. It has nothing at all to do with his ability or work ethic. In his first game as a Patriot last season (which would've been lost without him), he tore his groin but fought through it to play a critical role. It hampered him the rest of the year.

Unlike yourself and others who kill the guy for being "fragile," I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because when healthy he's clutch. (Edelman, by the way, was the team's only receiver last season not to miss significant time with injury.) We'll see what Danny does this year. And by the way, Welker's exit was purely on him, not the Patriots. That's been established here many times over.

 

[ensoul]

Here is how I have it:

First option: TBD
Second option :TBD
Third option: Lafell, Edelman, Amendola

BB has done a masterful job stacking the third option. Now he just has to find options 1 and 2.

 

[RIpats88]

I dont think Boyce is going anywhere. we aren't cutting a 4th round pick his 2nd year...he could easily have a big jump this year in talent.

heck, we stuck onto players who showed less. THompkins I could see on the roster bubble...just based on the fact I expect him to improve the least of the rookies. he is 25years old already

You get the feeling though especially if we sign Lance Moore that someoen is on the odds out. we cant find playing time for all of Edelman, amendola, lafell, moore, dobson etc. or maybe we can if we decide to mix and match.

I think lafell is here to stay, depending on how his contract is structured. they did give him 3years 11million$

 

[Brady6]

Your whole argument boils down to condemning Amendola for his injury history. It has nothing at all to do with his ability or work ethic. In his first game as a Patriot last season (which would've been lost without him), he tore his groin but fought through it to play a critical role. It hampered him the rest of the year.

Unlike yourself and others who kill the guy for being "fragile," I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt because when healthy he's clutch. (Edelman, by the way, was the team's only receiver last season not to miss significant time with injury.) We'll see what Danny does this year. And by the way, Welker's exit was purely on him, not the Patriots. That's been established here many times over.

I think that durability is an essential part of being a productive NFL player, the inability to stay on the football field is going to be the undoing of any NFL player in time. Take a look at Darren McFadden he was an electric player but his durability concerns resulted in a 1-year contract, other players would be Maurice Jones-Drew, Henry Melton, Sidney Rice, Hakeem Nicks, Jeremy Maclin, Louis Delmas, among others, these players are outstanding NFL players (or have been) but injury concerns diminished their value on the market. What we are talking about is if Amendola would net a draft pick in a trade, not if he is a productive player, I do not dispute that Amendola can be a productive; I am saying his value is diminished by three consecutive seasons of playing less than 50% of his team’s offensive reps and missing at least 4 games.

In addition to the injury concerns, I have concerns about Amendola’s consistency on the football field, over his career, 50% of his production for the season has occurred in 2-3 games, and the rest of his games have been mediocre. Last season for example he had 357 yards in the Bills, Steelers, and Dolphins games combined and 353 yards in the other 11 (including the playoffs) game he played.

 

[SalemPats]

Ya think that may have had something to do with the fact that we had absolutely no real capable receiving options, outside of the fact that Denver would give up some catches to Edelman inside of the 10 yard range?

I'm sure our receiving options almost kept Denver's coaches up at night leading up to the AFCCG in preparation. Amendola didn't receive any targets, outside of ONE measly attempt. That's because it wasn't too difficult deciding who to cover and how to approach their defensive gameplan. Obviously, Brady did not like the matchup.

I think this hurts your point. We all thought that DA would get the receptions inside of the 10 yard range. Playing on the outside, he struggled. BTW, I don't think the Broncos were able to execute any gameplan in the secondary this year

 

[Tunescribe]

I think that durability is an essential part of being a productive NFL player, the inability to stay on the football field is going to be the undoing of any NFL player in time. Take a look at Darren McFadden he was an electric player but his durability concerns resulted in a 1-year contract, other players would be Maurice Jones-Drew, Henry Melton, Sidney Rice, Hakeem Nicks, Jeremy Maclin, Louis Delmas, among others, these players are outstanding NFL players (or have been) but injury concerns diminished their value on the market. What we are talking about is if Amendola would net a draft pick in a trade, not if he is a productive player, I do not dispute that Amendola can be a productive; I am saying his value is diminished by three consecutive seasons of playing less than 50% of his team’s offensive reps and missing at least 4 games.

In addition to the injury concerns, I have concerns about Amendola’s consistency on the football field, over his career, 50% of his production for the season has occurred in 2-3 games, and the rest of his games have been mediocre. Last season for example he had 357 yards in the Bills, Steelers, and Dolphins games combined and 353 yards in the other 11 (including the playoffs) game he played.

Your anti-Amendola campaign in this and prior threads is mind-boggling; it almost seems personal. It's clear you want him gone. Tell me: if he stays healthy and plays well this coming season, how would you feel?

 

[Patriot Missile]

Your anti-Amendola campaign in this and prior threads is mind-boggling; it almost seems personal. It's clear you want him gone. Tell me: if he stays healthy and plays well this coming season, how would you feel?

Speaking of mind boggling I'm surprised anyone is still talking about adding another Wr via draft or free agency. There is so much depth I just can't see where they would get any playing time.

Edelman
LaFell
Dobson
Amendola
Boyce
Thomkins

As it is right now that's a pretty good set with a few ready to makes strides from their rookie seasons.

 

[hwc]

I would be surprised if they sign Lance Moore. It seems to me that his visit was more in the "Edelman insurance" category. I think if they take a flyer on another vet, it will be someone in the taller and/or faster category.

 

[Brady6]

Your anti-Amendola campaign in this and prior threads is mind-boggling; it almost seems personal. It's clear you want him gone. Tell me: if he stays healthy and plays well this coming season, how would you feel?

I do not want him gone, in fact if you look at everything I have mocked this offseason none of it has included releasing or trading Amendola.

What I dispute is the evaluation of Amendola by posters. His body of work span 5 NFL seasons on a 53-man roster and in none of those seasons has Amendola approached anything close to the level of production posters projects. The Patriots resigned Edelman a player who was one of just five NFL players with 100 receptions and 1000+ yards, yet there are posters projecting Amendola to start over him in the slot. That makes zero sense to me, I hold the players who do it or have done it in the highest regard, those are my projected starters, and I am not starting a player over another because I think he could do it if he were healthy.

Give a realistic view of Amendola based on what he has achieved and I will not say boo about it, say he will be productive as our third receiver, that is fine, but do not come on here and tell me he is the starter over Edelman and he is a better player. There nothing to merit that on the field, on the stat sheet, or in combines metrics.

My campaign very simple and it is not anti Amendola, it is be realistic this player has never been and unlikely to ever be what posters claim he is or will be. If you cannot see that at the very least do not take issue with me or other posters for seeing things realistically, the claims of anti Amendola, jihads, and other things that come up are childish and ridiculous. Posters are saying that a seven-year pro is going to become this unbelievable player and if someone does not agree with them, they get angry and start throwing out accusations at them. I am not sure warped reality that makes sense in.

I hope Amendola does well to answer your question, but until he actually does it, my opinion is that he is a productive, but often injured and inconsistent NFL receiver. God himself could post in here saying that was untrue but until I see Amendola prove it on the field for an entire season that is my opinion, case and point.

 

[mgteich]

Ok, so you have NEVER suggested releasing or trading Amendola.

You always thought that a #3 WR at best should be on the 2014 squad for between $3M and $4M. You always thought that we should be paying a $2M bonus to a player who will compete for #3/#4/#5 reps. You would never trade such a player.

Ok, we understand.

My analysis is quite different. If I thought as little of Amendola as you do, I would not have paid the bonus. At very least, I would be expecting/hoping to trade Amendola during camp when I know more about the players we have or will have. $3.5M is very expensive for someone who will be competing with LaFell, Thompkins and Boyce for reps (and perhaps with more players like Britt).

I do not want him gone, in fact if you look at everything I have mocked this offseason none of it has included releasing or trading Amendola.

What I dispute is the evaluation of Amendola by posters. His body of work span 5 NFL seasons on a 53 man roster and in none of those seasons has Amendola approached anything close to the level of production posters projects. The Patriots resigned Edelman a player who was one of just five NFL players with 100 receptions and 1000+ yards, yet there are posters projecting Amendola to start over him in the slot. That makes zero sense to me, I hold the players who do it or have done it in the highest regard, those are my projected starters, I am not starting a player over another because I think he could do it if he were healthy.

Give a realistic view of Amendola based on what he has achieved and I will not say boo about it, say he will be productive as our third receiver, that is fine, but do not come on here and tell me he is the starter over Edelman and he is a better player. There nothing to merit that on the field, on the stat sheet, or in combine metrics.

My campaign very simple and it is not anti Amendola, it is be realistic this player has never been and unlikely to ever be what posters claim he is or will be. If you cannot see that at the very least do not take issue with me or other posters for seeing things realistically, the claims of anti Amendola, jihads, and other things that come up are childish and ridiculous, posters are saying that a seven year pro is going to become this unbelievable player and if someone doesn't agree with them they get angry and start throwing out accusations at them. I'm not sure warped reality that makes sense in.

I hope Amendola does well to answer your question, but until he actually does it my opinion is that he is a productive, but often injured and inconsistent NFL receiver. God himself could post in here saying that was untrue but until I see Amendola prove it on the field for an entire season that is my opinion, case and point.

 

[Brady6]

Ok, so you have NEVER suggested releasing or trading Amendola.

You always thought that a #3 WR at best should be on the 2014 squad for between $3M and $4M. You always thought that we should be paying a $2M bonus to a player who will compete for #3/#4/#5 reps. You would never trade such a player.

Ok, we understand.

My analysis is quite different. If I thought as little of Amendola as you do, I would not have paid the bonus. At very least, I would be expecting/hoping to trade Amendola during camp when I know more about the players we have or will have. $3.5M is very expensive for someone who will be competing with LaFell, Thompkins and Boyce for reps (and perhaps with more players like Britt).

How would you have not paid the bonus it was paid when he signed the contract in 2013. If you are referring to the remainder of his 2014 salary than you are ignoring that they made Edelman and an offer and asked for a decision prior to UFA which if he had accepted could have led to the release of Amendola. When Edelman declined and chose to test the market keeping Amendola became a no brainer it was $2M to have so level of a slot receiver on the roster.

You comment on how little I think of Amendola but the reality is you do not have a clue what I think of him. This entire discussion is centered around me not being foolish enough to suggest that Amendola would be starting ahead of a player who is coming off a season in which he was one of five WRs in the NFL to have 100+ receptions and 1000+ yards, and led the NFL in catch ratio at 69.6%. That is one of the most absurd assertions I have ever heard in my 25 years as a fan and what I think of Amendola has nothing to do with it.

This is about your suggestion that Amendola a player who had 57 receptions, 710 yards and 2 touchdowns (including the playoffs), is going to start over the player who had 121 receptions, 1229 yards, 7 touchdowns. Do you realize when making such an outlandish assertion that if you take the 121 receptions Edelman had in the regular and post season combined it equates to 4 receptions less than the 125 receptions Amendola has in every game played (regular and postseason) combined over the past 3 seasons? I do not think lowly of Amendola as you suggest I think lowly of your ludicrous assertion that Amendola would start over Edelman in the slot this coming season.

 

[mgteich]

I would not dream of saying that I know or understand what you think. I make deductions from your posts.

So, let us be clear. If Dobson and one of LeFell/Boyce/Thompkins are doing reasonably well in camp, would you keep Amendola at his $3M-$4M or would you trade him?

How would you have not paid the bonus it was paid when he signed the contract in 2013. If you are referring to the remainder of his 2014 salary than you are ignoring that they made Edelman and an offer and asked for a decision prior to UFA which if he had accepted could have led to the release of Amendola. When Edelman declined and chose to test the market keeping Amendola became a no brainer it was $2M to have so level of a slot receiver on the roster.

You comment on how little I think of Amendola but the reality is you do not have a clue what I think of him. This entire discussion is centered around me not being foolish enough to suggest that Amendola would be starting ahead of a player who is coming off a season in which he was one of five WRs in the NFL to have 100+ receptions and 1000+ yards, and led the NFL in catch ratio at 69.6%. That is one of the most absurd assertions I have ever heard in my 25 years as a fan and what I think of Amendola has nothing to do with it.

This is about your suggestion that Amendola a player who had 57 receptions, 710 yards and 2 touchdowns (including the playoffs), is going to start over the player who had 121 receptions, 1229 yards, 7 touchdowns. Do you realize when making such an outlandish assertion that if you take the 121 receptions Edelman had in the regular and post season combined it equates to 4 receptions less than the 125 receptions Amendola has in every game played (regular and postseason) combined over the past 3 seasons? I do not think lowly of Amendola as you suggest I think lowly of your ludicrous assertion that Amendola would start over Edelman in the slot this coming season.