How To Salvage This Season?

[Real fan 02]

Salvaging for 2023 or 2024? The only thing to gain from this season is to play the younger players to see what we have going forward to 2024. I also suspect that playing the younger players may be a more productive option for 2023 however…good or bad.

Injuries are part of the game as well all know. It stinks loosing KB. But Brady got his start from an injury so.. I'm all in on seeing how the young guys and unproven guys can carve out a role. They are facing baptism by fire now. We have nothing to loose at this point. The wins and losses don't really even matter at this point. See how Mac Does with the young guys..

 

[Nikolai]

My idle thoughts and musings on this...

I am not a believer in tanking. When was the last time a team tanked and then won a Super Bowl within the next five years? Ever?
Tanking sets up a loser mentality/habit, players generally hate it (if player reports from tanking teams are to be believed), and it's banking an awful lot on a draft pick that is 50/50 at best, even with the number one pick. We used to make fun of the Colts for "sucking for Luck" and for good reason. They looked like fools, and turned out to be fools. Luck didn't even last beyond his second contract and the Colts never figured out how to win in big moments...maybe because some of veteran players spent considerable time developing loser habits?

We need to see what Mac Jones has, good or bad and either embrace what he is or shut the door and start again.
I personally no longer really believe he's the guy. But there's no harm at this point in making sure that he can't be a contributor on a winning team. It seems rather clear that, absent a Flacco-esque run, he's not the guy to carry a team to the Super Bowl, but if he can do enough, with a strong enough team around him, then perhaps it's something. However, that first contract is coming to an end soon and he's either going to cost a lot of money or go to another team. My money is on him going to another team and fading out as a backup somewhere, but I'm just an idiot on a message board. The risk, of course, is that we start to wander the QB desert like so many teams we used to ridicule.

Play the rooks.
Like everyone else has been saying, let's see what Pop, Boutte, Keion, Mapu, Sow, Mafi, etc have to offer and figure out who we're keeping and who is sent packing. Injury luck is forcing our hand at the WR position, where I have some hope that we've got something with Pop and Boutte. I guess it's also a good time to evaluate TT and figure out if he is going to be worth keeping around. His trajectory reminds me too much of Tate, Dobson, and all the other WRs that came with promise and left with a whisper.

Play with OL Combinations/Figure out Brown
It seems like there are some ways to make this line actually play well, if the Buffalo game is anything to go by. I have complicated feelings on Brown. He grades out highly and really seems to make some good plays. At the same time, there are clips circulating around showing him making bizarrely low effort plays. I can see why some people hate him, and why others like him. He's probably one of the most divisive OL guys we've had in a while.

Figure out what's working on defense/plan for the future
I'm not as down on the D as many here are. They are often given short fields to defend, spend considerable time on the field, and the injuries haven't really helped, especially in the secondary. We have an abundance of edge rushers, with some elite talent, some promising talent, and some egnimatic talent. I am super curious about what Keion can be, and Barmore is really starting to find his groove. With a healthy secondary, this could be a defense to build around.

The elephant in the room/BB
Honestly, I have no ****ing idea what should be done here. I guess, as a fan, I'll just soak in watching him patrol the sidelines. Whenever it is he goes, we will miss him. Like it or not, accept it or not, he played a large role in the success of this team over two decades. It'll be weird, one day, to look at the sideline and see a Harbaugh or whoever standing over there.

 

[1960Pats]

Speak for yourself! I BELIEVE that I impact the product on the field by which underwear I wear and how I angle my Pat Patriot cap!

Then you need to change your underwear and the angle of your hat.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Wtf is this?



And this?



This dude needs to be put on a post count. He’s like a malfunctioning twitter bot.

 

[Vindicate]

My idle thoughts and musings on this...

I am not a believer in tanking. When was the last time a team tanked and then won a Super Bowl within the next five years? Ever?
Tanking sets up a loser mentality/habit, players generally hate it (if player reports from tanking teams are to be believed), and it's banking an awful lot on a draft pick that is 50/50 at best, even with the number one pick. We used to make fun of the Colts for "sucking for Luck" and for good reason. They looked like fools, and turned out to be fools. Luck didn't even last beyond his second contract and the Colts never figured out how to win in big moments...maybe because some of veteran players spent considerable time developing loser habits?

We need to see what Mac Jones has, good or bad and either embrace what he is or shut the door and start again.
I personally no longer really believe he's the guy. But there's no harm at this point in making sure that he can't be a contributor on a winning team. It seems rather clear that, absent a Flacco-esque run, he's not the guy to carry a team to the Super Bowl, but if he can do enough, with a strong enough team around him, then perhaps it's something. However, that first contract is coming to an end soon and he's either going to cost a lot of money or go to another team. My money is on him going to another team and fading out as a backup somewhere, but I'm just an idiot on a message board. The risk, of course, is that we start to wander the QB desert like so many teams we used to ridicule.

Play the rooks.
Like everyone else has been saying, let's see what Pop, Boutte, Keion, Mapu, Sow, Mafi, etc have to offer and figure out who we're keeping and who is sent packing. Injury luck is forcing our hand at the WR position, where I have some hope that we've got something with Pop and Boutte. I guess it's also a good time to evaluate TT and figure out if he is going to be worth keeping around. His trajectory reminds me too much of Tate, Dobson, and all the other WRs that came with promise and left with a whisper.

Play with OL Combinations/Figure out Brown
It seems like there are some ways to make this line actually play well, if the Buffalo game is anything to go by. I have complicated feelings on Brown. He grades out highly and really seems to make some good plays. At the same time, there are clips circulating around showing him making bizarrely low effort plays. I can see why some people hate him, and why others like him. He's probably one of the most divisive OL guys we've had in a while.

Figure out what's working on defense/plan for the future
I'm not as down on the D as many here are. They are often given short fields to defend, spend considerable time on the field, and the injuries haven't really helped, especially in the secondary. We have an abundance of edge rushers, with some elite talent, some promising talent, and some egnimatic talent. I am super curious about what Keion can be, and Barmore is really starting to find his groove. With a healthy secondary, this could be a defense to build around.

The elephant in the room/BB
Honestly, I have no ****ing idea what should be done here. I guess, as a fan, I'll just soak in watching him patrol the sidelines. Whenever it is he goes, we will miss him. Like it or not, accept it or not, he played a large role in the success of this team over two decades. It'll be weird, one day, to look at the sideline and see a Harbaugh or whoever standing over there.

I share basically the exact same thoughts from top to bottom. Definitely not down on the defense, hence why I didn't really have any points in my initial post about them. So long as they can retain their willingness to play, if they're paired with a competent offense, I think things would look drastically different.

And big same on BB. I have no clue. But also I will miss him when he's gone lmao.

 

[GaryfromTO]

Fire the entire coaching and player development staff and use the last 9 games to distance themselves from the current regime. The rebuild needs to start ASAP.

 

[Vindicate]

Wtf is this?

View attachment 54291

And this?

View attachment 54292

This dude needs to be put on a post count. He’s like a malfunctioning twitter bot.

Huh? Salient points being made. I dunno what you're getting at.

 

[mgteich]

Wtf is this?

View attachment 54291

And this?

View attachment 54292

This dude needs to be put on a post count. He’s like a malfunctioning twitter bot.

You're right. There should be no other posts other than blow it up and play the kids until after the Super Bowl. People need to vent and have another 1000 posts discussing how we were better with Brady here.

 

[venecol]

Huh? Salient points being made. I dunno what you're getting at.

I think calling Pop WR#1 and Parker/JJSS WR#4 is kind of odd, don't you think?

 

[203Pat]

Wtf is this?

View attachment 54291

And this?

View attachment 54292

This dude needs to be put on a post count. He’s like a malfunctioning twitter bot.

He keeps parroting this "Juju isn't healthy" thing. He is healthy. He is just toast.

 

[Jangles]

Get rid of the salary cap, trade deadline, tampering and be granted the ability to exempt players on other teams from their contracts

Offer a tier 1 QB like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Lawrence, Burrow whatever it takes. Then ask them who they want to throw the ball to and do the same thing with our skill positions.

Short of that fantasy situation were the patriots are exempt from all financial and contractual constraints, probably not salvageable.

 

[Wozzy]

Admit that Mac isn't the answer.

 

[venecol]

One of the biggest narratives about Belichick's team building abilities is that he selects mid-tier players that are flexible, fit into his system and create depth. Instead of spending a large % of the cap on a few blue chip players, he selects mid tier ones to provide depth. But how is that really working out?

QB: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.
WR: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.
TE: no blue chip players, good depth, below avg.
RB: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.
OL: 1 blue chip player, lack of depth, below avg.

DL: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.
LB: 1 blue chip player, lack of depth, below avg.
CB: 1 blue chip player, lack of depth, below avg.
S: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.

I think we can call Judon, Gonzo & Onwenu borderline blue chip players. The depth behind these 3 is lacking. Sure, there's a few above avg. players in the mix but the performance of these groups when taking the entire depth into account is below avg.

Not sure if it's a failure of talent recognition, failure in player development or both, but it's not working. In fact, it's regressing. The idea that continuing this team building philosophy model will bring different results is insane to me.

 

[mgteich]

Admit that Mac isn't the answer.

Perhaps, you all are correct.
===============================
In 2021, we were in the playoffs with the QB who played better than any other rookie QB, under a top coaching team, including OC, QB coach and personal mentor.

In 2022, all support was gone. In addition, one of the worst OC's in the NFL was hired and a ST coach was the QB coach for a few weeks. Jones was awful. Even then, the team was in the playoff hunt until the last few games.

In 2023, under his 3rd OC, with an OL that hasn't been of NFL quality, Jones has been awful.
==========
As I have said, I do indeed buy into moving on, drafting a QB and signing a veteran. My gut tells me that the team would do much better in the next 3-5 years if Josh were brought back to resurrect Jones and his career. (We could still draft a QB). However, I don't see why Josh would come back. I don't think that he would be making any significant money. He is already being paid $10M a year from LV.

 

[Toofy]

I appreciate the various breakdowns, especially the first point. Given a lot of folks are hoping for a high draft position, do you think that exchange (draft position vs. playing hearts out until loss #9) would be worth it?

The more I see this post , the more I can relate to it and I feel like this is the most reasonable take.

We should just go all out guns blazing. Post season be damned .

Play without any pressure. A wounded lion is the most dangerous . We have nothing to lose . Try out all trick plays and all possible combinations . Goal should be to lay foundation for next year and unearth the diamonds from the rough.

We have had so many bad drafts and off season signings. What makes us confident that a lower position in draft won't get screwed up like what raiders have done.

I think this is the time to do catharsis on all aspects of football team including injury management, strengthening coaches, dieticians, scouts and try to see what misses have happened , what good opinions were overlooked in draft and off-season. I think there is a whole organizational aspect that needs to be reexamined.

 

[Real fan 02]

Perhaps, you all are correct.
===============================
In 2021, we were in the playoffs with the QB who played better than any other rookie QB, under a top coaching team, including OC, QB coach and personal mentor.

In 2022, all support was gone. In addition, the one of the worst OC's in the NFL was hired and a ST coach was the QB coach for a few weeks. Jones was awful. Even then, the team was in the playoff hunt until the last few games.

In 2023, under his 3rd OC, with an OL that hasn't been of NFL quality, Jones has been awful.
==========
As I have said, I do indeed buy into moving on, drafting a QB and signing a veteran. My gut tells me that the team would do much better in the next 3-5 years if Josh were brought back to resurrect Jones and his career. (We could still draft a QB). However, I don't see why Josh would come back. I don't think that he would be making any significant money. He is already being paid $10M a year from LV.
b

It can very well see a situation BOB decides to go Back to the NCAA.. that is a dream scenario for ownership because Josh would then be free. You know how it goes if it's free it's for me mentality. I think most people by now share your take as I do. I believe they will draft another QB.. Josh hasn't succeeded outside of NE.. sometimes people are at thier best being Coordinator rather than being a HC.

 

[mgteich]

He keeps parroting this "Juju isn't healthy" thing. He is healthy. He is just toast.

We must understand that a concussion, and recovery from a concussion, isn't an injury.

 

[Vindicate]

I think calling Pop WR#1 and Parker/JJSS WR#4 is kind of odd, don't you think?

I understood it as a contextually pertinent point: Parker has drawn the ire of many here for not showing up when needed and JJSS has done next to nothing given his hype. It would seem that Douglas would slide up the depth chart given the circumstances. I could be wrong.

FWIW, I personally don't want to count JJSS out just yet, but something hasn't been panning out. Hopefully he rights that course quickly.

Who do you think is WR1 right now?

 

[Vindicate]

One of the biggest narratives about Belichick's team building abilities is that he selects mid-tier players that are flexible, fit into his system and create depth. Instead of spending a large % of the cap on a few blue chip players, he selects mid tier ones to provide depth. But how is that really working out?

QB: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.
WR: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.
TE: no blue chip players, good depth, below avg.
RB: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.
OL: 1 blue chip player, lack of depth, below avg.

DL: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.
LB: 1 blue chip player, lack of depth, below avg.
CB: 1 blue chip player, lack of depth, below avg.
S: no blue chip players, lack of depth, below avg.

I think we can call Judon, Gonzo & Onwenu borderline blue chip players. The depth behind these 3 is lacking. Sure, there's a few above avg. players in the mix but the performance of these groups when taking the entire depth into account is below avg.

Not sure if it's a failure of talent recognition, failure in player development or both, but it's not working. In fact, it's regressing. The idea that continuing this team building philosophy model will bring different results is insane to me.

I have a bit more faith in the defense than you I think, but I certainly agree on the offensive side of things. It's a real head scratcher as to how they keep ****ing up on building an offense. It's one thing to not be great at drafting offense, it's another thing to be borderline inept at fielding an NFL-level product year in and out.

 

[Wozzy]

Perhaps, you all are correct.
===============================
In 2021, we were in the playoffs with the QB who played better than any other rookie QB, under a top coaching team, including OC, QB coach and personal mentor.

In 2022, all support was gone. In addition, one of the worst OC's in the NFL was hired and a ST coach was the QB coach for a few weeks. Jones was awful. Even then, the team was in the playoff hunt until the last few games.

In 2023, under his 3rd OC, with an OL that hasn't been of NFL quality, Jones has been awful.
==========
As I have said, I do indeed buy into moving on, drafting a QB and signing a veteran. My gut tells me that the team would do much better in the next 3-5 years if Josh were brought back to resurrect Jones and his career. (We could still draft a QB). However, I don't see why Josh would come back. I don't think that he would be making any significant money. He is already being paid $10M a year from LV.

Mac folded after the bye week in year one, this myth that he was exceptional as a rookie is misleading... and he got worse as the season went on not better. Those of us who were Mac fans said he was "good for a rookie," not that he was a really good NFL QB and that distinction is important. He had to improve a lot if he was going to become a longterm starter in the NFL. He hasn't improved, if anything he has stayed the same or gotten worse.

Zappe had no problem in 2022 under the same exact conditions. We blamed Patricia, but perhaps that was misguided. Mac was leading the NFL in interceptions when he got hurt in the Baltimore game, he was playing poorly. It took Gillette Stadium chanting Zappe's name to slap Mac back into reality and the possibility of losing his job if he didn't stop turning the ball over. He did, but he still wasn't great. He just took unnecessary sacks instead of making necessary throws.

We're making all sorts of excuses for his terrible play. Meanwhile under much worse conditions and a substantially worse offensive line Sam Howell is posting a much better offensive season than Mac, a rookie CJ Stroud is posting a much better more efficient season than Mac.

A good rule of thumb, if you have to create a long list of excuses for a player in year three... he's not very good.