My Blueprint for the Offense

[zimmy]

I said this a few months ago but with the money tied up in Mankins, Vollmer, Connolly and soon to be Solder it makes sense to draft an interior o-line on a rookie salary rather than get one in free agency. Mankins will be off the books in a couple of years when that pick is ready to get a bigger contract.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I'd much rather they were focused on a FA pass rusher...or at least were focused as there's not a great deal left. I just don't like the draft pass rushers this year. Much prefer the draft RBs.

I too am totally UNIMPRESSED with the defensive linemen coming out this year. They are either undersized, Donald; or unmotivated, Clowney, Hageman; or undertalented, Nix etc.

The Pats need to build the interior Offensive line. Ideally I'd like to see a short LT drafted, like Mankins who then moves to G. I like Zack Martin, Joel Bitonio, and XSF.

There is really little need for a concern over what is after all a RESERVE TE opening. The Pats can satisfy that easily with two specialists; or if they can find one, in a single player. The only pass receivers are Ebron and Amaro, but Ebron is probably gone, and Amaro might be too slow. Alternatively, they might select a big, tough WR, and give him those routes, like Coleman. But then LaFell fits that description already.

We do NOT need a in-line blocking real TE who can't catch, but the others seem to fit that category. Why is everyone talking of drafting a Hooman clone? I think they may have already have signed the two legs of an dual APerp replacement in LaFell for the receiving, and Hoomanawanui for the blocking.

I can't really believe BB drafting a 4th LB high, merely to sit or play in subs, and there are no safeties worth jumping after.

So it is back to Offensive linemen. Move up a bit for Zack, or trade down for Bitonio and XSF.:rocker:

 

[manxman2601]

I too am totally UNIMPRESSED with the defensive linemen coming out this year. They are either undersized, Donald; or unmotivated, Clowney, Hageman; or undertalented, Nix etc.

The Pats need to build the interior Offensive line. Ideally I'd like to see a short LT drafted, like Mankins who then moves to G. I like Zack Martin, Joel Bitonio, and XSF.

There is really little need for a concern over what is after all a RESERVE TE opening. The Pats can satisfy that easily with two specialists; or if they can find one, in a single player. The only pass receivers are Ebron and Amaro, but Ebron is probably gone, and Amaro might be too slow. Alternatively, they might select a big, tough WR, and give him those routes, like Coleman. But then LaFell fits that description already.

We do NOT need a in-line blocking real TE who can't catch, but the others seem to fit that category. Why is everyone talking of drafting a Hooman clone? I think they may have already have signed the two legs of an dual APerp replacement in LaFell for the receiving, and Hoomanawanui for the blocking.

I can't really believe BB drafting a 4th LB high, merely to sit or play in subs, and there are no safeties worth jumping after.

So it is back to Offensive linemen. Move up a bit for Zack, or trade down for Bitonio and XSF.:rocker:

There are a bunch of prospects I'd take ahead of Martin or XSF including DT's (Tuitt, Hageman), TE's (ASJ) and safeties (Jimmie Ward). Sorry, can't agree with you on this one.

Note: That's not to say I don't like Martin, I do, but I don't think he's worth taking in the first round, especially if it needs a trade up.

 

[mayoclinic]

My top offensive prospects of interest:

1. Eric Ebron, TE, North Carolina
2. Zach Martin, OL, Notre Dame
3. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE, Washington
4. Brandon Thomas, OL, Clemson
5. Joel Bitonio, OL, Nevada
6. Marcus Martin, OC, USC
7. Weston Richburg, OC, Colorado St.
8. Jace Amaro, TE, TCU
9. Troy Niklas, TE, Notre Dame
10. Jake Mewhort, OL, Ohio St.
11. Trai Turner, OG, LSU
12. Gabe Jackson, OG, Mississippi St.
13. Dakota Dozier, OG, Fordham
14. Xavier Su’a-Filo, OL, UCLA
15. Travis Swanson, OC, Arkansas
16. David Yankey, OL, Stanford
17. Billy Turner, OL, North Dakota St.
18. Cameron Fleming, OL, Stanford
19. Jake Murphy, TE, Utah
20. Richard Rodgers, TE, Cal
21. Logan Thomas, QB/TE, Virginia Tech
22. Russell Bodine, OG/C, North Carolina
23. Tyler Larsen, C, Utah St.
24. Bryan Stork, C, Florida St.
25. Bishop Sankey, RB, Washington
26. Devonte Freeman, RB, Florida St.
27. Storm Johnson, RB, UCF
28. Trey Millard, FB/H-Back, Oklahoma
29. Gator Hoskins, FB/H-Back, Marshall
30. Trey Bruton, WR/H-Back, Florida
31. Jerrick Mackinnon, RB, Georgia Southern
32. Joe Don Duncan, TE, Dixie St.
33. Crockett Gilmore, TE, Colorado St.
34. Kyle Fiedorowicz, TE, Iowa
35. Matt Pachan, OT, Boston College

As I said in the OP, I personally wouldn't draft a WR, though I'd target several as UDFAs.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think your prejudice against offense dictates this paragraph. I could write exactly the same thing arguing against drafting defense high.

I'm not arguing against drafting offense high, and I honestly don't think I'm prejudiced against offense (ok, well, maybe just a little). I firmly believe in spending high draft capital on offensive positions that are worth it: the QB, OL, and TE positions. But we already have a GOAT QB and 2 stud OTs, and I don't personally see an interior OL worth taking. That leaves TE, and it comes down to player valuation; Eric Ebron is the only guy I feel clearly warrants a 1st round pick.

FWIW, Greg Robinson is my top rated player in the entire draft. I've advocating taking him over Clowney as the BPA. And I expect that in 2015 I will be looking to potentially take a QB in the 1st round (assuming Shawn Oakman isn't somehow available ).

However, I do plead guilty to a bias against taking WRs and RBs in the 1st round, because (1) I believe those positions are the most fungible, and (2) I believe that you can find impact talent much later in the draft.

 

[BobDigital]

I too am totally UNIMPRESSED with the defensive linemen coming out this year. They are either undersized, Donald; or unmotivated, Clowney, Hageman; or undertalented, Nix etc.

The Pats need to build the interior Offensive line. Ideally I'd like to see a short LT drafted, like Mankins who then moves to G. I like Zack Martin, Joel Bitonio, and XSF.

There is really little need for a concern over what is after all a RESERVE TE opening. The Pats can satisfy that easily with two specialists; or if they can find one, in a single player. The only pass receivers are Ebron and Amaro, but Ebron is probably gone, and Amaro might be too slow. Alternatively, they might select a big, tough WR, and give him those routes, like Coleman. But then LaFell fits that description already.

We do NOT need a in-line blocking real TE who can't catch, but the others seem to fit that category. Why is everyone talking of drafting a Hooman clone? I think they may have already have signed the two legs of an dual APerp replacement in LaFell for the receiving, and Hoomanawanui for the blocking.

I can't really believe BB drafting a 4th LB high, merely to sit or play in subs, and there are no safeties worth jumping after.

So it is back to Offensive linemen. Move up a bit for Zack, or trade down for Bitonio and XSF.:rocker:

Well i got to give you credit for an interesting take. I am a believer in this DT class (not so much DE) sure there are guys with question marks but that is how it is in every draft.

Also about the reverse TE. Yes you are correct it is technically a backup but when you have Gronk really need to pencil in another starter behind him. I just don't trust him to stay healthy. If Gronk stays healthy all year and your TE doesn't see as many snaps as he deserves because of that I am perfectly fine with it. A healthy Gronk and strong D will likely win you a Superbowl.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I hope the Patriots draft Trey Burton and he becomes a stud who plays on the team for a long time simply so I can watch Mayo strangely spell his name wrong for years . Do you work with or have a friend named Bruton, Mayo? I'm now fascinated by this quirk and look for it all the time.

As to your list, I like it but have a question. Does it include all players of interest, or just players of interest relative to their expected draft position? For instance, I understand you aren't a big fan of Zack Martin, but do you advocate taking Billy Turner ahead of him? Or is that relative to their expected availability? I for one would want Martin over Turner, for instance.

 

[Coach42]

I hope the Patriots draft Trey Burton and he becomes a stud who plays on the team for a long time simply so I can watch Mayo strangely spell his name wrong for years . Do you work with or have a friend named Bruton, Mayo? I'm now fascinated by this quirk and look for it all the time.

As to your list, I like it but have a question. Does it include all players of interest, or just players of interest relative to their expected draft position? For instance, I understand you aren't a big fan of Zack Martin, but do you advocate taking Billy Turner ahead of him? Or is that relative to their expected availability? I for one would want Martin over Turner, for instance.

I've had a feeling for a while now that Zach Martin could be available to us at 29 and if he is I'd take him. Martin could add tremendous depth and improve the interior OL immediately by staring him at guard. Much like Mankins before him it would afford us the flexibility across 4/5's the line. He could start at RG and slide Connoly over or if you prefer you could make him the swing tackle and Cannon the RG.

Also, Mankins is closer to the end than the beginng, Martin could be the long term replacement there. He could also be insurance for Solder if his price tag becomes to Rich. I know the popular sentiment is D first however, I really believe Martin could provide tremendous short and long term value for the team at 29.

 

[Off The Grid]

I hope the Patriots draft Trey Burton and he becomes a stud who plays on the team for a long time simply so I can watch Mayo strangely spell his name wrong for years .

Do you work with or have a friend named Bruton, Mayo?

I'm now fascinated by this quirk and look for it all the time.

I think he's just a fan of ShakeSpeare.

"Really, Bruton??"

 

[manxman2601]

"Eat Two Bruton?"

 

[mayoclinic]

I hope the Patriots draft Trey Burton and he becomes a stud who plays on the team for a long time simply so I can watch Mayo strangely spell his name wrong for years . Do you work with or have a friend named Bruton, Mayo? I'm now fascinated by this quirk and look for it all the time.

It's called "cut and paste".

I think he's just a fan of ShakeSpeare.

"Really, Bruton??"

"Eat Two Bruton?"

You Brutes! Or is it, "You Burtes!"

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not arguing against drafting offense high, and I honestly don't think I'm prejudiced against offense (ok, well, maybe just a little). I firmly believe in spending high draft capital on offensive positions that are worth it: the QB, OL, and TE positions. But we already have a GOAT QB and 2 stud OTs, and I don't personally see an interior OL worth taking. That leaves TE, and it comes down to player valuation; Eric Ebron is the only guy I feel clearly warrants a 1st round pick.

FWIW, Greg Robinson is my top rated player in the entire draft. I've advocating taking him over Clowney as the BPA. And I expect that in 2015 I will be looking to potentially take a QB in the 1st round (assuming Shawn Oakman isn't somehow available ).

However, I do plead guilty to a bias against taking WRs and RBs in the 1st round, because (1) I believe those positions are the most fungible, and (2) I believe that you can find impact talent much later in the draft.

P.S.: If Jonathan Cooper were in this draft, he'd be one of my top 3-4 rated prospects.

 

[manxman2601]

P.S.: If Jonathan Cooper were in this draft, he'd be one of my top 3-4 rated prospects.

If Jonathan Cooper was in any draft he'd be one of my top rated prospects. That play where he was blocking 50 yards downfield for Bernard is still one of the most memorable plays I've seen. No-one this year comes close to Cooper on the OL.

 

[manxman2601]

At any one time, five offensive skill position players are on the field.

These are in contention for as many snaps as possible:

WR: Julian Edelman
WR: Danny Amendola
WR: Aaron Dobson
WR: Brandon Lafell
TE: Rob Gronkowski
RB: Shane Vereen/MJD/Knowshon?

Backups or rotational players:

WR: Kenbrell Thompkins
WR: Josh Boyce
RB: Steven Ridley/LeGarette Blount?

Used quite a bit last season but expendable:

TE: Michael Hoomanawanui
FB: James Develin - McDaniels likes his fullbacks


Why do I state the bleedin' obvious? Because it's hard to project giving a TE drafted in the first or second round meaningful snaps when there's so many other offensive targets vying for the same. To give an ASJ or Amaro etc meaningful snaps, at least two of that first group need to be off the field either through formation or injury and I'm not sure you draft someone in rounds one or two on the expectation that someone will get injured. I suppose the only question mark that facilitates drafting a TE early is whether BB lacks confidence in The Gronk's ability to last an entire season.

I hate to say it, but I think they're not drafting a TE until day 3.

 

[patchick]

At any one time, five offensive skill position players are on the field.

These are in contention for as many snaps as possible:

WR: Julian Edelman
WR: Danny Amendola
WR: Aaron Dobson
WR: Brandon Lafell
TE: Rob Gronkowski
RB: Shane Vereen/MJD/Knowshon?

...

Why do I state the bleedin' obvious? Because it's hard to project giving a TE drafted in the first or second round meaningful snaps when there's so many other offensive targets vying for the same. ...

Ooh, provocative take! But I don't think I'm sold yet.

First off, your "as many snaps as possible" list includes 2 players returning from major injuries, one unproven 2nd-year receiver, and 1 new FA who has never caught a pass from Tom Brady. I don't think it's too hard to picture a talented young TE pushing some of them down the snaps depth chart.

Second, injuries WILL happen. Right now, if you take out either Gronk or Vereen this skill group is frighteningly one-dimensional.

Third, this is a game-planning team, and the roster as currently constituted lacks flexibility. A second quality TE and/or a quality h-back would give the team far more options to attack defensive weaknesses, and would make the offense much harder for opposing teams to plan for.

 

[manxman2601]

Ooh, provocative take! But I don't think I'm sold yet.

First off, your "as many snaps as possible" list includes 2 players returning from major injuries, one unproven 2nd-year receiver, and 1 new FA who has never caught a pass from Tom Brady. I don't think it's too hard to picture a talented young TE pushing some of them down the snaps depth chart.

Second, injuries WILL happen. Right now, if you take out either Gronk or Vereen this skill group is frighteningly one-dimensional.

Third, this is a game-planning team, and the roster as currently constituted lacks flexibility. A second quality TE and/or a quality h-back would give the team far more options to attack defensive weaknesses, and would make the offense much harder for opposing teams to plan for.

As someone who has nailed his colours to the "take a TE early" mast or a long time now I hope I'm wrong. But if BB is all about value, does the value really exist in a first or second round TE?

 

[varjao]

My blueprint for the offense:

- Draft 2 big receiving TE's;

 

[patchick]

My blueprint for the offense:

- Draft 2 big receiving TE's;

...and have one of them play center?

 

[mayoclinic]

At any one time, five offensive skill position players are on the field.

These are in contention for as many snaps as possible:

WR: Julian Edelman
WR: Danny Amendola
WR: Aaron Dobson
WR: Brandon Lafell
TE: Rob Gronkowski
RB: Shane Vereen/MJD/Knowshon?

Backups or rotational players:

WR: Kenbrell Thompkins
WR: Josh Boyce
RB: Steven Ridley/LeGarette Blount?

Used quite a bit last season but expendable:

TE: Michael Hoomanawanui
FB: James Develin - McDaniels likes his fullbacks


Why do I state the bleedin' obvious? Because it's hard to project giving a TE drafted in the first or second round meaningful snaps when there's so many other offensive targets vying for the same. To give an ASJ or Amaro etc meaningful snaps, at least two of that first group need to be off the field either through formation or injury and I'm not sure you draft someone in rounds one or two on the expectation that someone will get injured. I suppose the only question mark that facilitates drafting a TE early is whether BB lacks confidence in The Gronk's ability to last an entire season.

I hate to say it, but I think they're not drafting a TE until day 3.

Ooh, provocative take! But I don't think I'm sold yet.

First off, your "as many snaps as possible" list includes 2 players returning from major injuries, one unproven 2nd-year receiver, and 1 new FA who has never caught a pass from Tom Brady. I don't think it's too hard to picture a talented young TE pushing some of them down the snaps depth chart.

Second, injuries WILL happen. Right now, if you take out either Gronk or Vereen this skill group is frighteningly one-dimensional.

Third, this is a game-planning team, and the roster as currently constituted lacks flexibility. A second quality TE and/or a quality h-back would give the team far more options to attack defensive weaknesses, and would make the offense much harder for opposing teams to plan for.

I agree with both of you.

I've been suggesting for a while that TE could be a double-dip day 3 option. I think that if the opportunity is there - such as ASJ or Amaro slipping - then the Pats would be silly to pass it up, but they would also be silly to reach for a TE day 1-2 under the perception that they have to have one.

I agree with Patchick that TEs (and FlexBacks) add multi-dimensionality to the offense, and I would stockpile them, as I discussed in the OP. But that doesn't have to be day 1-2 picks. Gator Hoskins, Trey Millard, guys like Jake Murphy, Richard Rodgers and Crockett Gilmore, a moon shot like AC Leonard or Colt Lyerla or a conversion like Logan Thomas or Larry Webster, or using Mark Harrison (left out of Manx's list) in a hybrid role. Plus replacing Blount with a FlexBack like Moreno, and adding some depth behind Vereen. All of these things would address the concerns about the offense becoming too 1-dimensional when Gronk and Vereen aren't available. Again, I have no objection to taking a TE on day 2 if they are the BPA (or even Ebron day 1, if he somehow slipped to 29)

By all means load up on depth at the TE and FlexBack positions with day 3/UDFAs, and figure out who can add the most value. I would plan on having 4-5 TE/FB-Hbacks and 2+ FlexBacks on the roster at all times, and another 1-2 of each on the practice squad. By all means grab a stud TE day 1-2 if they are the best value available. But I wouldn't reach, and I definitely don't buy into the "we have to draft a Gronk backup day 1-2" philosophy.

 

[manxman2601]

I agree with both of you.

I've been suggesting for a while that TE could be a double-dip day 3 option. I think that if the opportunity is there - such as ASJ or Amaro slipping - then the Pats would be silly to pass it up, but they would also be silly to reach for a TE day 1-2 under the perception that they have to have one.

I agree with Patchick that TEs (and FlexBacks) add multi-dimensionality to the offense, and I would stockpile them, as I discussed in the OP. But that doesn't have to be day 1-2 picks. Gator Hoskins, Trey Millard, guys like Jake Murphy, Richard Rodgers and Crockett Gilmore, a moon shot like AC Leonard or Colt Lyerla or a conversion like Logan Thomas or Larry Webster, or using Mark Harrison (left out of Manx's list) in a hybrid role. Plus replacing Blount with a FlexBack like Moreno, and adding some depth behind Vereen. All of these things would address the concerns about the offense becoming too 1-dimensional when Gronk and Vereen aren't available. Again, I have no objection to taking a TE on day 2 if they are the BPA (or even Ebron day 1, if he somehow slipped to 29)

By all means load up on depth at the TE and FlexBack positions with day 3/UDFAs, and figure out who can add the most value. By all means grab a stud TE day 1-2 if they are the best value available. But I wouldn't reach, and I definitely don't buy into the "we have to draft a Gronk backup day 1-2" philosophy.

I think you are overrating the calibre of the day three prospects. For me it's Fiedorowicz and not a lot else. Blake Annen and Jake Murphy are interesting and Hoskins and Jensen are passable but I'm not seeing much better than Sudfeld on day three and as we know, that didn't go well. Put it this way, if we're waiting until day three to draft a TE, only Fiedorowicz is an upgrade to the position (and that's only because he has more upside than Hooman).