The Official Jets at Patriots Post-Game Thread

[Joker]

I disagree with part of your post...they ARE physical...when asked to play this passive zone, the chance to get physical drastically diminishes. On offense they physically overpowered the Jets in the third quarter. Running a REVERSE to start the next series is a finesse play, no chance of being physical and winning matchups up front.

I'm convinced after today that the main problems are squarely emanating from the coaching staff.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, Some observations and some comments:

1. Hernandez and Edelman show up, and Welker doesn't get a pass until the second quarter. Meanwhile, the Force the ball to Lloyd" system continues to be in effect. Until this stops, we can expect to continue seeing these games on offense.
   
2. Brady was 26 for 42 for 259 yards and 2 TDs, but it felt as if he wasn't getting anything done. Part of it is definitely the drops, but part of it is because the playcalling/targeting isn't allowing the offense to get into a groove. I don't know whether this is BB/McDaniels, or it's Brady, but it seems to be tied to #1, above.
   
3. I obviously couldn't focus on every player on every play, but McDonald was having real trouble getting at second level players, and it was definitely impacting the game.
   
4. Jones is starting to get handled by opposing teams. He's getting a lot of attention but, even when he's isolated, he's struggling more and more. He needs help.
   
5. Spikes destroyed Greene. That was a hell of a lick.
   
6. Edelman - 2 catches, 7 yards. We're going to have to keep waiting on that amazing YAC, apparently.
   
7. The interior of this line is another major problem holding back the offense right now. Part of this is injury/sickness, and part is the Waters' retirement. Nonetheless, Scar has got to fix this, and this week would be a good time for it. The Rams have some good pass rushers. The good news is that they play better towards the outside.
   
8. Woodhead did a nice job picking up the blitz.
   
9. I'm hoping it's just temporary, but Ridley doesn't look the same to me right now.
   
10. Brady deserved a lot better from his receivers. On the positive side for him, he brought the team back with a game tying drive, and then led the game winning drive. Complainers will argue that they were field goals. I'll respond in advance and point out that Lloyd dropped a TD.
    
11. Wilfork and Love are loads in the middle, and Spikes and Mayo clean up behind them. Now the team needs better run stopping from the other 3 members of the front seven, and this could be an elite run defense.
    
12. I'm not sure what can be said about that secondary that hasn't already been said. I'll try this, though: Despite what was another really lousy game out there, I actually felt better about the secondary today. It wasn't because of great play, obviously. It was because I saw Dennard and Dowling in there, and not doing any worse than those they were replacing. They, at least, should have a steeper improvement curve if they're kept in the games moving forward.
    
13. That being said, I do still have to say that it was inexcusable to allow the struggling Jets passing game to have its bread and butter passing play (slant/seam) all game long.
    
14. How sad is it that the safeties didn't seem much worse than the Chung/Gregory duo did earlier?
    
15. McCourty looks a lot more confident when he's not stuck in recovery mode. I don't know how they fix it so that he's not getting beaten early as often, but I think it would make a world of difference to his confidence.
    
16. If this team can get to the bye week at 5-3, they'll have 2 weeks to heal and get playing together. That should, hopefully, help the offense a lot. With Hernandez, Gronk, Mankins, Edelman and Vollmer dealing with injury so far this year, the team probably hasn't had a full week of healthy practice all year, including the exhibition season.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

i know everyone wants a blow out like 45-3...but division games are no walk in the park....even though i thought this one would be

One big positive that I haven't seen mentioned is the lack of negative plays by the offense. Sure they weren't lighting up the scoreboard like we're accustomed to, but there weren't any killer sacks, ints, fumbles, etc by them.

The Jets are actually a pretty good team when they can generate some positive plays with their ST and D. Doing just that has allowed them to beat teams that have "outplayed" them, and I think winning in that aspect of the game allowed the Pats to pull out a W despite being "outplayed". Outside of the fumble on the return I can't think of a big play for them that didn't come from their offense.

 

[SVN]

The team did absolutely nothing to change our minds that it is better than average other than getting the win...barely

Nothing today should make us thrilled other than leading the AFC Least by a game for the next 6 days at worst,the team had nothing to get us excited about.

It was a good finish and a tight battle,but man it was boring as all hell.

Houston and San Fran will win by 40 at Gillette if the Pats play this way a month from now.

hard to compare division game with SF and Houston. They are good teams butnot the same comparison . The jets know us and we know them .Division games are mostly tight. And pats usually improve as the season goes on.

 

[SVN]

Just got back from the game. Place absolutely ERUPTED when Sanchez fumbled.

Was kind of sad to see the boos pats up 23-20.

 

[ATippett56]

One phrase can sum up the New England Patriots season to date:

consistently inconsistent

 

[BradyBranch39]

I'll take a different angle on Stephen Hill's 4th qtr drop:

After the FG was made, the cameras were on him and he had a face full of relief. But he shouldn't have. HE DIDN'T MOVE THEM OUT OF FOLK'S RANGE-- HE MADE THEM SETTLE FOR 3 INSTEAD OF GOING IN FOR 7. He should have felt no relief at all when that kick went through because it didn't change ANYTHING-- he cost his team a shot at a win in regulation.

What a maroon.

 

[The Gr8est]

OK, Some observations and some comments:

1. Hernandez and Edelman show up, and Welker doesn't get a pass until the second quarter. Meanwhile, the Force the ball to Lloyd" system continues to be in effect. Until this stops, we can expect to continue seeing these games on offense.
   
   Lloyd has made some really gr8 sidelines catches this year, but today he almost single-handedly cost the Pats the game. I believe he was targeted 6 times with only 1 catch? That is unacceptable; his drop in the first drive cost them points.
   
   
2. Brady was 26 for 42 for 259 yards and 2 TDs, but it felt as if he wasn't getting anything done. Part of it is definitely the drops, but part of it is because the playcalling/targeting isn't allowing the offense to get into a groove. I don't know whether this is BB/McDaniels, or it's Brady, but it seems to be tied to #1, above.
   
   I don't know who to blame either, but doesn't Brady have the ability to change the play at the LOS? These failed cutesy trick plays have been a major ender of several promising Pats drives this year. Maybe BB needs to reduce the size of the playbook for Josh for a while, if he is unable to curtail this tendency himself.
   
   
3. I obviously couldn't focus on every player on every play, but McDonald was having real trouble getting at second level players, and it was definitely impacting the game.
   
   Pats are struggling keeping the OL healthy and producing. Matt Tennant was cut to make room for Jeff Tarpinian, and then Connolly was pulled for sickness very early in the game. I'm really glad we didn't get any more OL injuries in the game to test our depth further. Was Cannon was our only reserve after Connolly went out?
   
   
4. Jones is starting to get handled by opposing teams. He's getting a lot of attention but, even when he's isolated, he's struggling more and more. He needs help.
5. Spikes destroyed Greene. That was a hell of a lick.
6. Edelman - 2 catches, 7 yards. We're going to have to keep waiting on that amazing YAC, apparently.
   
   I still like Edelman and think he's going to help the Pats. Shouldn't be at Welker's expense though. Interesting that Welker was the PR today. Does BB not trust Edelman's judgment on PR or is his hand still not fully healed?
   
   
7. The interior of this line is another major problem holding back the offense right now. Part of this is injury/sickness, and part is the Waters' retirement. Nonetheless, Scar has got to fix this, and this week would be a good time for it. The Rams have some good pass rushers. The good news is that they play better towards the outside.
   
8. I'm hoping it's just temporary, but Ridley doesn't look the same to me right now.
   
   To my eyes Ridley hasn't not rushed as aggressively since the fumble vs the Seahawks and seems more tentative, as if he is hyper-aware of ball security.
   
   I think the running game misses the power of Brandon Bolden, and I'm not so sure he is really RB 1A vs Ridley at 1B.
   
   Vereen flashed some good stuff early in the game. Hopefully he is being worked in and will be part of the rotation.
   
   
9. Brady deserved a lot better from his receivers. On the positive side for him, he brought the team back with a game tying drive, and then led the game winning drive. Complainers will argue that they were field goals. I'll respond in advance and point out that Lloyd dropped a TD.
10. Wilfork and Love are loads in the middle, and Spikes and Mayo clean up behind them. Now the team needs better run stopping from the other 3 members of the front seven, and this could be an elite run defense.
11. I'm not sure what can be said about that secondary that hasn't already been said. I'll try this, though: Despite what was another really lousy game out there, I actually felt better about the secondary today. It wasn't because of great play, obviously. It was because I saw Dennard and Dowling in there, and not doing any worse than those they were replacing. They, at least, should have a steeper improvement curve if they're kept in the games moving forward.
12. That being said, I do still have to say that it was inexcusable to allow the struggling Jets passing game to have its bread and butter passing play (slant/seam) all game long.
13. How sad is it that the safeties didn't seem much worse than the Chung/Gregory duo did earlier?
    
    Or conversely, how encouraging for the future of Wilson that the dropoff wasn't noticeable.
    
    
14. McCourty looks a lot more confident when he's not stuck in recovery mode. I don't know how they fix it so that he's not getting beaten early as often, but I think it would make a world of difference to his confidence.
15. If this team can get to the bye week at 5-3, they'll have 2 weeks to heal and get playing together. That should, hopefully, help the offense a lot. With Hernandez, Gronk, Mankins, Edelman and Vollmer dealing with injury so far this year, the team probably hasn't had a full week of healthy practice all year, including the exhibition season.
    
    Maybe it was just me, but we should breathe a sigh of relief that Hernandez wasn't injured late in the game, as Landry came in with a "tackle" on him similar to the hit that took out Fred Jackson's knee in week #1. Landry sure loves those "full body into the knee" tackles.

..........

 

[DaBruinz]

Brady willed this team to a win today. In fact, at times he shredded the Jets like tissue paper...but Brandon Lloyd dropped six of seven targets

Lloyd dropped 2 balls. Not 6 of 7. Hell, 2 of the "Targets" credited to Lloyd were ones that Brady intentionally threw out of bounds.

 

[DaBruinz]

OK, Some observations and some comments:

1. Hernandez and Edelman show up, and Welker doesn't get a pass until the second quarter. Meanwhile, the Force the ball to Lloyd" system continues to be in effect. Until this stops, we can expect to continue seeing these games on offense.
   
2. Brady was 26 for 42 for 259 yards and 2 TDs, but it felt as if he wasn't getting anything done. Part of it is definitely the drops, but part of it is because the playcalling/targeting isn't allowing the offense to get into a groove. I don't know whether this is BB/McDaniels, or it's Brady, but it seems to be tied to #1, above.
   
3. I obviously couldn't focus on every player on every play, but McDonald was having real trouble getting at second level players, and it was definitely impacting the game.
   
4. Jones is starting to get handled by opposing teams. He's getting a lot of attention but, even when he's isolated, he's struggling more and more. He needs help.
   
5. Spikes destroyed Greene. That was a hell of a lick.
   
6. Edelman - 2 catches, 7 yards. We're going to have to keep waiting on that amazing YAC, apparently.
   
7. The interior of this line is another major problem holding back the offense right now. Part of this is injury/sickness, and part is the Waters' retirement. Nonetheless, Scar has got to fix this, and this week would be a good time for it. The Rams have some good pass rushers. The good news is that they play better towards the outside.
   
8. Woodhead did a nice job picking up the blitz.
   
9. I'm hoping it's just temporary, but Ridley doesn't look the same to me right now.
   
10. Brady deserved a lot better from his receivers. On the positive side for him, he brought the team back with a game tying drive, and then led the game winning drive. Complainers will argue that they were field goals. I'll respond in advance and point out that Lloyd dropped a TD.
    
11. Wilfork and Love are loads in the middle, and Spikes and Mayo clean up behind them. Now the team needs better run stopping from the other 3 members of the front seven, and this could be an elite run defense.
    
12. I'm not sure what can be said about that secondary that hasn't already been said. I'll try this, though: Despite what was another really lousy game out there, I actually felt better about the secondary today. It wasn't because of great play, obviously. It was because I saw Dennard and Dowling in there, and not doing any worse than those they were replacing. They, at least, should have a steeper improvement curve if they're kept in the games moving forward.
    
13. That being said, I do still have to say that it was inexcusable to allow the struggling Jets passing game to have its bread and butter passing play (slant/seam) all game long.
    
14. How sad is it that the safeties didn't seem much worse than the Chung/Gregory duo did earlier?
    
15. McCourty looks a lot more confident when he's not stuck in recovery mode. I don't know how they fix it so that he's not getting beaten early as often, but I think it would make a world of difference to his confidence.
    
16. If this team can get to the bye week at 5-3, they'll have 2 weeks to heal and get playing together. That should, hopefully, help the offense a lot. With Hernandez, Gronk, Mankins, Edelman and Vollmer dealing with injury so far this year, the team probably hasn't had a full week of healthy practice all year, including the exhibition season.

Kinda hard to get YAC when you get the ball with 3 defenders on you... Which is what happened to Edelman. Not sure why you are complaining about Edelman when he didn't get that many snaps. Welker got more.

 

[Joker]

Lloyd dropped 2 balls. Not 6 of 7. Hell, 2 of the "Targets" credited to Lloyd were ones that Brady intentionally threw out of bounds.

my mistake for using a tweet from one of the papparazzi...being there today and watching, he really never got on the radar...another one is Branch...he's got to make that catch in the 4th...I'm just starting to watch the game on DVR but I will tell you, as far as the feeling in the stands, it was Gronk ,Gronk, Welker ,Hernandez rinse repeat...

 

[Deus Irae]

Kinda hard to get YAC when you get the ball with 3 defenders on you... Which is what happened to Edelman. Not sure why you are complaining about Edelman when he didn't get that many snaps. Welker got more.

I didn't complain about Edelman at all. People here were using the claim that Edelman's great with YAC as part of their "Well, BB must be right, so ...." argument defending Edelman's elevated status at the start of the year, so I was pointing out his numbers and noting the lack of that allegedly magnificent YAC.

2 catches
7 yards

And it's not as if this is his only game, either. For the season:

4 games
12 catches
92 yards

He's now under 8 yards a catch on the season, and is averaging 3 catches and 23 yards per game. I'm hoping he blows up and shows us something a bit more than that, and I don't think that should be too much to ask of the player who got Wes Welker put on the bench in 2WR sets at the start of the season.

 

[Deus Irae]

When it comes to the passing offense, this team needs a healthier Gronk, a healthier and better Hernandez, less Lloyd and more Edelman, and it all needs to revolve around Welker. He's the main cog in the receiving machine.

 

[SVN]

When it comes to the passing offense, this team needs a healthier Gronk, a healthier and better Hernandez, less Lloyd and more Edelman, and it all needs to revolve around Welker. He's the main cog in the receiving machine.

Agreed. Welker makes this offense go. When they dont use him like in the 1st Q , they have no rhythm . Unfortunately dont see the lloyd fascination going away and this is on JMcD I would have to assume.

 

[SVN]

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard
Not to make excuses for Patriots, but brutal travel through London. 7 of last 10 weeks on road. long Tampa trip, SEA, London.

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard
Final 2 preseason games on road, spent 3 days in Tampa. That was not smart RT @justinsportable: Tampa?

 

[Sciz]

I didn't complain about Edelman at all. People here were using the claim that Edelman's great with YAC as part of their "Well, BB must be right, so ...." argument defending Edelman's elevated status at the start of the year, so I was pointing out his numbers and noting the lack of that allegedly magnificent YAC.

2 catches
7 yards

And it's not as if this is his only game, either. For the season:

4 games
12 catches
92 yards

He's now under 8 yards a catch on the season, and is averaging 3 catches and 23 yards per game. I'm hoping he blows up and shows us something a bit more than that, and I don't think that should be too much to ask of the player who got Wes Welker put on the bench in 2WR sets at the start of the season.

If you're going to make a YAC argument, at least cite the YAC stat other than the related but different YPC stat. And even then, YAC ability is useless if that player doesn't get the ball in space, which didn't happen today. It's hard for Edelman to get YAC when his route is "go three yards, turn around, catch, and get tackled right away." They need to get him on some underneath horizontal routes to really show off his YAC ability (think Houston 2009).

 

[Deus Irae]

If you're going to make a YAC argument, at least cite the YAC stat other than the related but different YPC stat. And even then, YAC ability is useless if that player doesn't get the ball in space, which didn't happen today. It's hard for Edelman to get YAC when his route is "go three yards, turn around, catch, and get tackled right away." They need to get him on some underneath horizontal routes to really show off his YAC ability (think Houston 2009).

Edelman is averaging under 8 YPC while playing on the outside and drawing single coverage. Welker gets bracket and double coverage, and is often running the short and inside routes, yet he's averaging 12+ YPC. As for citing YAC, read your own post. There's not really a need for a specific number when you're already arguing that he's got a route issue that's limiting his YAC.

Also, just to point out, I'm not blaming Edelman for this. Either he can't do the job and it's a personnel screw up, or he can do the job and it's a playcalling and/or Brady issue. It's sort of a continuation of the Aiken/Tate situations. Hopefully he can do the job and time will get this sorted out.

 

[supafly]

A bit off topic, but I haven't seen any other place to ask the question:

Exactly who was wide open on the right side during the first Gronk TD? There was someone WIDE open who lined up to the offensive right side, yet Brady somehow didn't even look his way at all. He was literally waving his arms and jumping up and down, there wasn't a defender within 20 yds of him. Was it Edelman? Welker? I couldn't tell.

It made me think of the Indy game in the AFCCG when everyone was jumping up and down on the sidelines trying to get Tom's attention to look right when the Colts messed up and failed to cover the receiver from the get go, yet Tom just kept almost looking over while going through his cadence and never saw him.

The play did work obviously, but I'm wondering if Brady isn't going through his progressions as much as in the past and honing in on certain players right off the bat at times?

One would wonder how the hell he missed that player on the right side like that.

 

[RobAllan]

1. Believe it was Woodhead
2. Believe Brady didn't see him BECAUSE he went through his progression. Think Gronk was first look and Brady stayed there because he knew he'd get open. I'd have to watch play again, but I'm betting the busted coverage wasn't obvious on line of scrimmage when they lined up.

Brady can't see whole field at once. It was bummer he didn't look over there, but I don't think there's much to be learned from the play.

A bit off topic, but I haven't seen any other place to ask the question:

Exactly who was wide open on the right side during the first Gronk TD? There was someone WIDE open who lined up to the offensive right side, yet Brady somehow didn't even look his way at all. He was literally waving his arms and jumping up and down, there wasn't a defender within 20 yds of him. Was it Edelman? Welker? I couldn't tell.

It made me think of the Indy game in the AFCCG when everyone was jumping up and down on the sidelines trying to get Tom's attention to look right when the Colts messed up and failed to cover the receiver from the get go, yet Tom just kept almost looking over while going through his cadence and never saw him.

The play did work obviously, but I'm wondering if Brady isn't going through his progressions as much as in the past and honing in on certain players right off the bat at times?

One would wonder how the hell he missed that player on the right side like that.

 

[Marqui]

Cunningham won the game IMO. That strip sack was all started from Cunningham's initial pressure from inside. Pass rush would be better if he played more.