The Official Jets at Patriots Post-Game Thread

[Observer]

When it comes to the passing offense, this team needs a healthier Gronk, a healthier and better Hernandez, less Lloyd and more Edelman, and it all needs to revolve around Welker. He's the main cog in the receiving machine.

Fully agree. Why the second best player on offense on as many plays as possible is incomprehensible. It shouldn't be so hard for a hall of fame coach to figure it out. It looks as if they are deliberately trying to make it harder. Maybe there is a method to the madness.

 

[resdubwhite]

A bit off topic, but I haven't seen any other place to ask the question:

Exactly who was wide open on the right side during the first Gronk TD? There was someone WIDE open who lined up to the offensive right side, yet Brady somehow didn't even look his way at all. He was literally waving his arms and jumping up and down, there wasn't a defender within 20 yds of him. Was it Edelman? Welker? I couldn't tell.

It made me think of the Indy game in the AFCCG when everyone was jumping up and down on the sidelines trying to get Tom's attention to look right when the Colts messed up and failed to cover the receiver from the get go, yet Tom just kept almost looking over while going through his cadence and never saw him.

The play did work obviously, but I'm wondering if Brady isn't going through his progressions as much as in the past and honing in on certain players right off the bat at times?

One would wonder how the hell he missed that player on the right side like that.

Woody.

Jets completely ignored him. Thankfully Gronk delivered.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

OK, Some observations and some comments:

1. Hernandez and Edelman show up, and Welker doesn't get a pass until the second quarter. Meanwhile, the Force the ball to Lloyd" system continues to be in effect. Until this stops, we can expect to continue seeing these games on offense.
   
   This coaching staff's desire to win is only trumped by it's desire to be ahead of the curve... Welker is in line to tie Jerry Rice for 10 plus catch games in a career. This cannot be allowed to happen.
   
2. Brady was 26 for 42 for 259 yards and 2 TDs, but it felt as if he wasn't getting anything done. Part of it is definitely the drops, but part of it is because the playcalling/targeting isn't allowing the offense to get into a groove. I don't know whether this is BB/McDaniels, or it's Brady, but it seems to be tied to #1, above.
   
   It is tied to Josh's total disregard for the need to get an offense in rhythm at the expense of fielding as many varied personnel groupings as possible in the hope of confusing the defense, and fulfilling your mandate from the big guy to build something unstoppable for week 20, even if it turns out to be at the expense of getting there...
   
3. I obviously couldn't focus on every player on every play, but McDonald was having real trouble getting at second level players, and it was definitely impacting the game.
   
4. Jones is starting to get handled by opposing teams. He's getting a lot of attention but, even when he's isolated, he's struggling more and more. He needs help.
   
5. Spikes destroyed Greene. That was a hell of a lick.
   
6. Edelman - 2 catches, 7 yards. We're going to have to keep waiting on that amazing YAC, apparently.
   
7. The interior of this line is another major problem holding back the offense right now. Part of this is injury/sickness, and part is the Waters' retirement. Nonetheless, Scar has got to fix this, and this week would be a good time for it. The Rams have some good pass rushers. The good news is that they play better towards the outside.
   
   One of the things I disagreed with Bedard about was his claim there was nothing to worry about where the OL was concerned because Scar would simply do what he does...silly fan I am. This all started with the brilliant plan to poke a contractual stick in Waters eye back in the spring. Should have been upping the ante then instead of attempting to buy him back in August.
   
8. Woodhead did a nice job picking up the blitz.
   
9. I'm hoping it's just temporary, but Ridley doesn't look the same to me right now.
   
   Bill is taking the opposite approach with this poor kid to the handholding one he took with Maroney. Sad, this kid obviously cares and Bill is just grinding him up.
   
10. Brady deserved a lot better from his receivers. On the positive side for him, he brought the team back with a game tying drive, and then led the game winning drive. Complainers will argue that they were field goals. I'll respond in advance and point out that Lloyd dropped a TD.
    
11. Wilfork and Love are loads in the middle, and Spikes and Mayo clean up behind them. Now the team needs better run stopping from the other 3 members of the front seven, and this could be an elite run defense.
    
12. I'm not sure what can be said about that secondary that hasn't already been said. I'll try this, though: Despite what was another really lousy game out there, I actually felt better about the secondary today. It wasn't because of great play, obviously. It was because I saw Dennard and Dowling in there, and not doing any worse than those they were replacing. They, at least, should have a steeper improvement curve if they're kept in the games moving forward.
    
13. That being said, I do still have to say that it was inexcusable to allow the struggling Jets passing game to have its bread and butter passing play (slant/seam) all game long.
    
    It wasn't really all game long. They seemed to get their footing after that first drive, and they were holding their own in coverage before Bill and Patricia huddled on the sideline and Bill started coaching them up. Right after that we went back into his beloved shell...
    
14. How sad is it that the safeties didn't seem much worse than the Chung/Gregory duo did earlier?
    
15. McCourty looks a lot more confident when he's not stuck in recovery mode. I don't know how they fix it so that he's not getting beaten early as often, but I think it would make a world of difference to his confidence.
    
16. If this team can get to the bye week at 5-3, they'll have 2 weeks to heal and get playing together. That should, hopefully, help the offense a lot. With Hernandez, Gronk, Mankins, Edelman and Vollmer dealing with injury so far this year, the team probably hasn't had a full week of healthy practice all year, including the exhibition season.

Somehow I don't find the normal comfort in that prospect. I clearly blame that on Josh...

 

[DaBruinz]

Cunningham won the game IMO. That strip sack was all started from Cunningham's initial pressure from inside. Pass rush would be better if he played more.

Cunningham was a non-factor when lined up at DE. When he was out there lined up next to Vince and rushing from INSIDE, that is when he made his bones. But you can't do that on every play. Cunningham was washed out and couldn't set the edge on running plays more times than anyone cares to admit.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Pats need to go back to when they would find Brady's favorite receiver. Which receiver was that? The open one.

Targeting specific players just isn't working. As others have mentioned, though, they need to keep Welker active in the offense. Same with Gronkowski and Hernandez. Lloyd, Branch, Edelman, and Fells are all secondary players to those 3 but can burn defenses if they are over-playing Welker, Gronk and Hernandez.

 

[upstater1]

Somehow I don't find the normal comfort in that prospect. I clearly blame that on Josh...

About Ridley, his carries are up at the top of the league. It may be smart to preserve him or limit him right now to 15 carries a game.

This offense is geared toward the TEs, both of whom are mere shadows of themselves.

 

[condon84]

When it comes to the passing offense, this team needs a healthier Gronk, a healthier and better Hernandez, less Lloyd and more Edelman, and it all needs to revolve around Welker. He's the main cog in the receiving machine.

McD just needs to put our best 5 receivers out there, spread them out, and let Brady make the decisions. It's gotta start with our best weapon, which is Brady's ability to read defenses and make quick decisions. Taking that away from our offense is stupid on so many levels.

 

[Kontradiction]

McD just needs to put our best 5 receivers out there, spread them out, and let Brady make the decisions. It's gotta start with our best weapon, which is Brady's ability to read defenses and make quick decisions. Taking that away from our offense is stupid on so many levels.

So essentially, you're advocating severely limiting the running game or abandoning it altogether? Remind me never to take you seriously again when questioning the coaching. The pass to run ratio should, ideally, be 60/40.

 

[yukon cornelius]

McD just needs to put our best 5 receivers out there, spread them out, and let Brady make the decisions. It's gotta start with our best weapon, which is Brady's ability to read defenses and make quick decisions. Taking that away from our offense is stupid on so many levels.

yeah, cause this served them so well in their past 2 superbowls


keep the commitment to the running game......stop shying away from the no-huddle....stop taking their foot off the gas



this offense is best when it is aggressive and fast paced, and they have shown they can run the ball in hyper drive.....stop slowing things down and taking their foot off the gas

 

[condon84]

So essentially, you're advocating severely limiting the running game or abandoning it altogether? Remind me never to take you seriously again when questioning the coaching. The pass to run ratio should, ideally, be 60/40.

Of course we should run the ball. If Brady sees it's favorable to run, then by all means do it. Leave it to him to make decisions pre-snap.

What I don't agree on is the trick plays, and plays in general where the ball is taken away from Brady. Are you seriously just going to trot out the excuse that it's all execution problem? You can say that about every failed play. Hell, you can say the reason why the Jags suck is because it's their execution.

 

[condon84]

yeah, cause this served them so well in their past 2 superbowls


keep the commitment to the running game......stop shying away from the no-huddle....stop taking their foot off the gas



this offense is best when it is aggressive and fast paced, and they have shown they can run the ball in hyper drive.....stop slowing things down and taking their foot off the gas

Brady got us the lead in both Super Bowls with 5 minutes to go. If our defense makes at least one play in those last 5 minutes, we win both games.

 

[upstater1]

The team's not good right now. It's losing to teams it has no business losing to, and it almost lost to a Jets team that's been horrible for a good part of the season.

And this is different from previous years how?

They went 14-2 and 13-3 in the last 2 years, and still managed to lose to the Buffalo Bills, .500 Jets and Cleveland Browns.

Before that, they had early year losses to Jets and (bad) Broncos in 2009, (bad) Broncos in 2006 and Mangini 1st year Jets, and even in the Super Bowl win years they lost games early in the year to teams like the hapless Bills, Patrick Ramsey's Redskins, horrid Jets, pathetic Bengals, Wanny's lousy Dolphins.

Losing to awful teams in the first half is a regular occurrence under Belichick. And each year he plays vanilla until the last 3rd and 4th of the season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

This offense is geared toward the TEs, both of whom are dealing with not-so-minor injuries.

...........

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Fully agree. Why the second best player on offense on as many plays as possible is incomprehensible. It shouldn't be so hard for a hall of fame coach to figure it out. It looks as if they are deliberately trying to make it harder. Maybe there is a method to the madness.

Based on last year, I would say that what "as many plays as possible" means is a very good question; when he played 90%+ last year, his production tailed off in the second half of the season for the first time in his career.

 

[Kontradiction]

Of course we should run the ball. If Brady sees it's favorable to run, then by all means do it. Leave it to him to make decisions pre-snap.

What I don't agree on is the trick plays, and plays in general where the ball is taken away from Brady. Are you seriously just going to trot out the excuse that it's all execution problem? You can say that about every failed play. Hell, you can say the reason why the Jags suck is because it's their execution.

No, you can't say that about every play. Sometimes the execution is great and the play call sucks. I didn't see overwhelming evidence of that on Sunday. Two screens in a row I don't agree with, but the first one, for example, would have been a picture perfect call if the offense could have blocked for it to save their lives. Another play was the flea flicker where Hernandez was WIDE open and the O-Line, again, couldn't give Brady enough time. Yet another example was the early throw downfield to Lloyd where he, yet again, dropped a very easy catch. If he had made that, it's likely the Patriots could have put 7 more on the board.

Again, at one point yesterday it was half and half run to pass ratio. At the end of the game, it was 60/40 in favor of the pass. IMO, for this offense, that's an ideal gameplan. The execution just sucked, badly, for very long phases of the game.

 

[PatsSox363804]

No, you can't say that about every play. Sometimes the execution is great and the play call sucks. I didn't see overwhelming evidence of that on Sunday. Two screens in a row I don't agree with, but the first one, for example, would have been a picture perfect call if the offense could have blocked for it to save their lives. Another play was the flea flicker where Hernandez was WIDE open and the O-Line, again, couldn't give Brady enough time. Yet another example was the early throw downfield to Lloyd where he, yet again, dropped a very easy catch. If he had made that, it's likely the Patriots could have put 7 more on the board.

Again, at one point yesterday it was half and half run to pass ratio. At the end of the game, it was 60/40 in favor of the pass. IMO, for this offense, that's an ideal gameplan. The execution just sucked, badly, for very long phases of the game.

If they lost this game, Lloyd was the clear goat. He dropped a pass that killed the first drive, he dropped a deep ball that hit him in the hands that would have led to at least 3, probably 7, and he dropped the one that hit him in the chest. Granted Cromartie was all over him on the last one, he still should have caught it.

 

[Kontradiction]

If they lost this game, Lloyd was the clear goat. He dropped a pass that killed the first drive, he dropped a deep ball that hit him in the hands that would have led to at least 3, probably 7, and he dropped the one that hit him in the chest. Granted Cromartie was all over him on the last one, he still should have caught it.

Because I'm a sucker for abuse, I watched the game with one of my friends who is a Giants fan yesterday. That was the first he saw of the Pats all season. He was amazed at how Lloyd, who had always made the circus catches, was dropping such easily catchable balls. Two of them were absolute killers.

 

[Uncle Rico]

...Another play was the flea flicker where Hernandez was WIDE open and the O-Line, again, couldn't give Brady enough time.

Blocking could have been better, but I also thought Ridley was a bit delayed on the pitch back. Seemed to be feeling the heat of the rush.

Random thought: Trick plays are like those beer commercials about superstitions; to paraphrase:"They only suck if they don't work."

 

[Marqui]

Cunningham was a non-factor when lined up at DE. When he was out there lined up next to Vince and rushing from INSIDE, that is when he made his bones. But you can't do that on every play. Cunningham was washed out and couldn't set the edge on running plays more times than anyone cares to admit.

This play for example, Cunningham and Jones both put heat on Sanchez quickly and Cunningham was the first to trip him up. How is that a non-factor? Actually everything in your post isn't even true.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Cunningham did get blown off his edge a couple of times, but he held his own just as often. He's just not a big guy, and when both DT's get blown up, and they're running at Cunningham, he's going to struggle.

Between Cunningham, Jones, and Ninkovich, someone's getting pressure. Vince was actually solid getting interior pressure at times, but the problem continues to be that when they aren't breaking free, they're not even getting close. The best manage to at least push the pocket even if they're not going to get there. It's feast or famine in the truest sense on that defense.

Who was credited with that sack? I think I remember Cunningham getting the stat, but I don't think JC even touched him. It looks like Love and Jones got a piece though.