Content Post Idle thoughts: Moral victory, or Lost opportunity....

[ScottishPatriots]

No such thing as moral victories, just another blown opportunity in a winnable game.

This team can't close these games and haven't been able to for years, if the same happens next week is that another moral victory?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I want to be in Mac's corner, and I see the positives of winning without a superstar QB. I believe it's possible. But Mac is indeed jittery back there. He doesn't seem comfortable.

Yes jittery I agree. But he is seeing things around him and moving much better, including scrambling. He doesn't always adjust and set his feet well, and could be smoother. He is improved IMO. Can he improve more? Settle down? Step more into some throws? I am not sure, I do not know how QBs progress over time.

 

[mike_usagisan]

The decision to pick up his fifth year option has already been made unless he completely implodes. At worst, Mac is a competent starting QB who puts in the work during the week, that's worth the 24 million or so the option will cost them. Now, in terms of an extension I agree he has a ton to prove, but they don't have to make a determination on that until March, 2026.

I think this is a really great point. The Pats are probably happy enough with Mac to realize they're not going to find anyone better for cheaper and Mac puts them in position enough to win. If it were today, they'd pick up the option. But whether they think he's the future is still a big question.

 

[203Pat]

At some point Mac needs to get over the hump and win one of these games. He seems to have a bunch of "moral victories" but really no signature win.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

No such thing as moral victories, just another blown opportunity in a winnable game.

This team can't close these games and haven't been able to for years, if the same happens next week is that another moral victory?

Time runs out on moral victories. I agree. When does Mac's time run out on moral victories? I think you are jumping the gun. Every NFL QB needs 3 years before an initial judgement. Tua, Allen, and Hurts all grew significantly over their 3rd season in the league. Everyone loves Herbert but he has not won anything. We need to wait for the end of this season to draw conclusions on Mac.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Time runs out on moral victories. I agree. When does Mac's time run out on moral victories? I think you are jumping the gun. Every NFL QB needs 3 years before an initial judgement. Tua, Allen, and Hurts all grew significantly over their 3rd season in the league. Everyone loves Herbert but he has not won anything. We need to wait for the end of this season to draw conclusions on Mac.

My biggest problem with Mac and why i'm rapidly losing belief is not just the results it's he's not been good at what he's supposed good at he's a decision making and accuracy guy, that has to be his strong points because he's very limited athletically and a below average arm talent but his accuracy has been poor.

If you're going to overcome your deficiencies you have to be pin point and his decision making has to be on point, at one point i thought Mac and Tua were very similar level at one point and people will say Tua got weapons which obviously helped but his accuracy is also very good to try and overcome his lack of arm where as Mac hasn't improved in accuracy at all and has even regressed from his rookie year.

Herbert is good at what he's supposed to be good at bar the winning part that's why people will defend him and blame others, it's much easier to just blame him having a bozo coach than using that excuse for Mac.

 

[Kontradiction]

Mac looks like the same Mac, more or less, that we’ve seen for the last two years. Given time, he can find the open man. Under pressure (Carter had 6 by himself), his eyes drop way too quickly and he gets happy feet. That’s a big part of the reason for the hot-and-cold performance. Don’t like that observation? Talk to Mac himself…

"We fell behind because of me," he said, "and I put it on myself."

Later he added: "I feel like in the most critical times, I played my worst."

Here’s another problem on offense (at least through one week, which is an admittedly small sample size) - our receivers needed to be schemed open. They couldn’t separate against the Eagles in man. BOB, being the excellent play caller he is, countered that by making heavy use of the bunch and the Eagles got lost in the trash in the 2nd quarter.

Third quarter, the Eagles went Cover-3 and Cover-4 to counter that. In the game thread, I said to look for the deep post. Assumed we would go with Douglas there, but it was Bourne who was the beneficiary of that action. I haven’t been able to confirm this yet via the All-22, but it looked to me that the Eagles adjusted after that with some zone match schemes to take away the deep shots while trying to choke off everything between the numbers.

In all, BOB called a fantastic game and Mac certainly took advantage of that at times by making plays when they needed to be made. But we’re going to need Boutte and Douglas to grow up ASAP and we will need Parker back for however long he can give us before he gets injured again.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes jittery I agree. But he is seeing things around him and moving much better, including scrambling. He doesn't always adjust and set his feet well, and could be smoother. He is improved IMO. Can he improve more? Settle down? Step more into some throws? I am not sure, I do not know how QBs progress over time.

You can see it happen in real time. Watch his helmet if it even looks like the pocket is a threat to collapse. He goes from clearly moving through his progression to dropping his eyes to the rush. He really needs to clean up that area of his game if he’s going to take the next step.

 

[StanleyGrogan]

The two are not mutually exclusive. It can be a moral victory AND a lost opportunity. I don't think it was a moral victory though.
We beat ourselves in the first quarter. You cant dig yourselves into a 16 point hole against anyone, let alone the NFC champs. I don't know how many 4th quarter comebacks Mac has helmed but I cant think of any/many. Needs some belief from somewhere.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

My biggest problem with Mac and why i'm rapidly losing belief is not just the results it's he's not been good at what he's supposed good at he's a decision making and accuracy guy, that has to be his strong points because he's very limited athletically and a below average arm talent but his accuracy has been poor.

If you're going to overcome your deficiencies you have to be pin point and his decision making has to be on point, at one point i thought Mac and Tua were very similar level at one point and people will say Tua got weapons which obviously helped but his accuracy is also very good to try and overcome his lack of arm where as Mac hasn't improved in accuracy at all and has even regressed from his rookie year.

Herbert is good at what he's supposed to be good at bar the winning part that's why people will defend him and blame others, it's much easier to just blame him having a bozo coach than using that excuse for Mac.

You must have missed the touchdown pass to Henry. You are looking at the game with tinted glasses on. Otherwise you are correct.

 

[203Pat]

My biggest problem with Mac and why i'm rapidly losing belief is not just the results it's he's not been good at what he's supposed good at he's a decision making and accuracy guy, that has to be his strong points because he's very limited athletically and a below average arm talent but his accuracy has been poor.

If you're going to overcome your deficiencies you have to be pin point and his decision making has to be on point, at one point i thought Mac and Tua were very similar level at one point and people will say Tua got weapons which obviously helped but his accuracy is also very good to try and overcome his lack of arm where as Mac hasn't improved in accuracy at all and has even regressed from his rookie year.

Herbert is good at what he's supposed to be good at bar the winning part that's why people will defend him and blame others, it's much easier to just blame him having a bozo coach than using that excuse for Mac.

There were a few throws yesterday that really took a while to get where they needed to be. That deep shot took forever to get there and allowed Slay to recover and break up the pass.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You can see it happen in real time. Watch his helmet if it even looks like the pocket is a threat to collapse. He goes from clearly moving through his progression to dropping his eyes to the rush. He really needs to clean up that area of his game if he’s going to take the next step.

Agreed. I do not know if Mac will take that next step or not. The coaches like him and they are supposed to know. Mac seems to do everything he is supposed to do, but can't do two things at once like reset his feet while avoiding the rush like Brady did. Mac seems to do only one thing at a time, in succession, so he looks "jittery".

 

[PatsFan2]

My biggest problem with Mac and why i'm rapidly losing belief is not just the results it's he's not been good at what he's supposed good at he's a decision making and accuracy guy, that has to be his strong points because he's very limited athletically and a below average arm talent but his accuracy has been poor.

If you're going to overcome your deficiencies you have to be pin point and his decision making has to be on point, at one point i thought Mac and Tua were very similar level at one point and people will say Tua got weapons which obviously helped but his accuracy is also very good to try and overcome his lack of arm where as Mac hasn't improved in accuracy at all and has even regressed from his rookie year.

Herbert is good at what he's supposed to be good at bar the winning part that's why people will defend him and blame others, it's much easier to just blame him having a bozo coach than using that excuse for Mac.

Nailed it Brother that one handed catch by Henry shouldn't have been that hard Mac got bailed out there. Mac's deep outs across the field are scarry reminds me of the old Nintendo game duck hunt.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Agreed. I do not know if Mac will take that next step or not. The coaches like him and they are supposed to know. Mac seems to do everything he is supposed to do, but can't do two things at once like reset his feet while avoiding the rush like Brady did. Mac seems to do only one thing at a time, in succession, so he looks "jittery".

Yep and as a consequence his accuracy suffers under pressure. HH bailed him out big time on the 4th down play.

Hopefully BOB can work with him on that so he improves.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

Nailed it Brother that one handed catch by Henry shouldn't have been that hard Mac got bailed out there. Mac's deep outs across the field are scarry reminds me of the old Nintendo game duck hunt.

When Mac is throwing the ball down the middle of the field they can look crisp and accurate at times but you're right about those throws they're like arm punts seems like they're in the air forever and he's heaving the ball like he's throwing it 60 yards and it's like a 30 yard throw.

 

[PatsFan2]

The two are not mutually exclusive. It can be a moral victory AND a lost opportunity. I don't think it was a moral victory though.
We beat ourselves in the first quarter. You cant dig yourselves into a 16 point hole against anyone, let alone the NFC champs. I don't know how many 4th quarter comebacks Mac has helmed but I cant think of any/many. Needs some belief from somewhere.

We'll never forget 12 ever but boy we WON so many of those kind of games yesterday not after he left though. Yeah Mac needs to win some of those this year Mac always falling short pressers are too familiar yadda yadda yadda.

 

[PatsFan2]

At some point Mac needs to get over the hump and win one of these games. He seems to have a bunch of "moral victories" but really no signature win.

Moral victories or signature losses??

 

[PatsFan2]

We'll never forget 12 ever but boy we WON so many of those kind of games yesterday not after he left though. Yeah Mac needs to win some of those this year Mac always falling short pressers are too familiar yadda yadda yadda.

IF Mac can't make those Outside the numbers Throws NFL Defenses will just Flood the middle and take Henry or any of our Inside WR's away. Mac have to keep the Defense honest with his arm or there will be many three an outs.

 

[Kasmir]

I think the o-line is getting too much credit for not getting Mac killed yesterday and not having many jailbreaks. I guess they were ok against the pass. They did give up a lot of pressure, but nothing unusual considering the opponent having the arguably the best d-line in the league. But they were awful vs. the run. Stevenson had absolutely no holes to run inside. That obviously hurt the offense.

Mac's pocket awareness was also much improved over last year.

 

[patfanken]

Mac was fine today but I saw the same QB I’ve seen for the past two seasons, which isn’t good enough to compete deep into the postseason.

Most certainly not a game where Jones covered himself in glory, although as I said, he was fine and others were also far from perfect.

Accurate, great touch throwing the ball … and that’s about it. Still has too many bad throws, questionable decisions, times where he crumbles in the pocket due to perceived (but not real) pressure, too many ducks that float, too inconsistent and unsteady. I don’t see someone who’s mentally tough, I don’t see a natural leader, I continue to see bad footwork, mechanics, too many fluttering passes, a lack of poise (particularly in critical game situations, which is troubling).

Basically, he’s a physically limited QB with inconsistent mechanics, poor ball velocity, and a lack of maturity/poise. He just seems too emotionally unsteady, often seems to be thinking too much. I was really hoping we’d see a more steady, grounded, focused Mac who looks physically, emotionally, and mentally matured/developed, with improved mechanics/ball velocity. To my eye, he looks more or less like the same goofy kid he was as a rookie, which won’t cut it.

It’s only week 1, but this is the season that will determine Mac’s future with the team and I didn’t see much indicating he’s taken a step forward in any regard.

I always said - back when the Brady/Manning debate was a thing - that Manning was the better pure passer but Brady is the better quarterback. There’s much more to to being a great quarterback than just passing the ball; intangibles, leadership, decision making, poise, mental toughness, judgment, ability to adapt, ability to play well in inclement weather, etc. I unfortunately get the vibe Mac is a Manning at this point; a uniquely talented pure passer of a football, but doesn’t demonstrate many traits that are critical to success beyond that.

Wait a second. Wait a second guys. It seems to me that you are all forgetting the QB is NOT alone out there. EVERY offensive player is depending on 10 other guys to make a play successful. You all sound like Mac is alone out there and the success or failure of every play is solely down to him. You make it sound like every successful play is down to someone else and every bad play is Mac's fault. There were over 300yds in receiving made in the last 50 minutes of this game.

It was also a season opener, and you all forget that there is ANOTHER team out there as well, and a pretty damned good one too. Mac a LOT to overcome in this game. If you refuse to recognize this then we will be having this conversation after every game.