The Great Derek Wolfe Debate!!

[Sfpat]

Here's to the Pats drafting Wolfe & Bequette in the 3rd & 4th rounds, after they've already
drafted Fletcher Cox, Whitney Mercilus, Harrison Smith & Marvin Jones.

This would be an incredible draft.

 

[jmt57]

Some feedback from Friday's University of Cincinnati Pro Day on Derek Wolfe:



The link below includes a 47-second video of Wolfe in a drill, for those that are interested.

Wolfe and Schaffer among Bearcats interviewed at Pro Day - Cincinnati Bearcats

Derek Wolfe also did his share of interviews after measuring out with the biggest hands there (10 3/4) and pounding out 33 reps on the bench press.​

2012 NFL draft pro day updates - Tony Pauline - SI.com

Wolfe, in particular, looked good in drills. He was fluid moving around the field and looked powerful during bag drills.​

 

[captain stone]

What's the debate? He's a 4-5th round 3 tech prospect that can't two-gap end.

After seeing & reading the above links, I wouldn't be so sure about that now.
The kid could become the Aaron Smith of the 2010s.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

After seeing & reading the above links, I wouldn't be so sure about that now.
The kid could become the Aaron Smith of the 2010s.

What the hell are you watching?

All I see is that when he is 1 gapping, he is decent to good.
When I see him 2 gap, he either doesn't get any push or pressure and sometimes, he gets rolled on the Point of Attack.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Wolfe is already > Wright. How much better remains to be seen, of course.
Regardless, our late 3rd-rounder is the earliest I would consider him. Bill has no excuse
not to have already drafted a DE by then.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Yeah. Some draftee who has get to take a snap in the NFL is a better player over a 6 year veteran.

 

[patsderoer]

What the hell are you watching?

All I see is that when he is 1 gapping, he is decent to good.
When I see him 2 gap, he either doesn't get any push or pressure and sometimes, he gets rolled on the Point of Attack.

Thanks to Wolfe's efforts, Cinci led the nation in sacks per game. That tells everyone with half a brain that Wolfe can get plenty of push and pressure in any situation, and he's a great player.

Needs some work in the running game and in his hands use. But then again, so do almost all prospects in every draft.

 

[Sciz]

Hold on a second. How does Cincinnati have more sacks per game than Texas A&M, when Cinci has 46 in 13 games and TAM has 51 in 13 games?

 

[patsderoer]

Cons: Lower body strength looks like it needs to catch up to upper body strength.

Wolfe has plenty of lower body strength, as evidenced by his 33.5 inch vert.
And if Wolfe doesnt have lower body strength, when can we say about Cox or Brockers, who put up a poor 26 inch vert.

I did not see a ton of double teams, but when I did, he was completely taken out of that play.

Cinci was close to the top in nation in sacks per game. That tell you that, even when Wolfe "was taken out of a play", he was still influencing the play, as other players were making plays thanks to Wolfe's double teams.

Plays a little high at times, gets his hands up on the top of shoulder pads of O-lineman instead of down in the chest... I do not think he uses hands all that well. I did not see a club rip or punch the entire game.

I agree that he needs to learn better use of hands. But this why I like him so much. If he could put up that college production with limited use of hands, I could only imagine what he could do with a complete arsenal of hand moves.

 

[patsderoer]

Hold on a second. How does Cincinnati have more sacks per game than Texas A&M, when Cinci has 46 in 13 games and TAM has 51 in 13 games?

LOL true. Got wrong info then. Still TAM had 17players contributing sacks, while Cinci only 12. This is why forums are good, we can correct wrong infos.

Still though, Cinci was pretty close to the top in sacks per game.

Edit: Finally found the source of confusion. Got the info about cinci leading the nation in sacks per game from here http://www.bigeast.org/News/tabid/435/Article/231249/cincinnati-linebacker-jk-schaffer-named-2011-american-eagle-outfitters-big-east.aspx
A three-year starter, Schaffer had 337 career tackles, leading all BIG EAST players who were active in 2011. He finished his career with 27.5 tackles for loss, 15 pass breakups, six forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries. He earned All-BIG EAST First Team honors in 2011 after he ranked third in the conference in tackles (8.8 per game), had four sacks and led a Cincinnati unit that led the nation in sacks (8.6 per game) and was sixth nationally in rushing defense (96.2 ypg).

Checking the stats, actually Cinci had 8.6 TFLs per game. TAM had 8.0 TFL per game, so probably Cinci led the nation in TFL per game. Obviously still thanks to Wolfe's efforts, he was influencing plays even when "he was completely taken out of plays".

1gap, 2 gap, he was still creating plenty of push and pressure to get into backfield to make plays, or to allow his teammates to make plays. Beast. And he did this with limited use of hands. I could only imagine what he could have done with a complete arsenal of hand moves.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Thanks to Wolfe's efforts, Cinci led the nation in sacks per game. That tells everyone with half a brain that Wolfe can get plenty of push and pressure in any situation, and he's a great player.

Needs some work in the running game and in his hands use. But then again, so do almost all prospects in every draft.

Hence why at best, he should be taken in the 3rd round and below. He is a project.

 

[patsderoer]

Hence why at best, he should be taken in the 3rd round and below. He is a project.

Yeah, like brockers, Cox, Reyes, Still are not projects, they are sure HOF.
Brockers and Cox both with a poor 26 inch vert, showing how poor lower body strength they have.

Wolfe had 33.5 inch vert, showing that he has much better lower body strength than brockers and cox. He had better college production that all those rated above him. With a little work in his run game and his hands use, he will be a beast in the pros, just like he was in college. His ceiling is much higher than brockers, cox, reyes or still, who didnt show much in pass rushing abilities in college.

 

[captain stone]

What the hell are you watching?

All I see is that when he is 1 gapping, he is decent to good.
When I see him 2 gap, he either doesn't get any push or pressure and sometimes, he gets rolled on the Point of Attack.

IOW, like most other college DLineman who are double-teamed, esp. those lineman
who are expected to be drafted outside of the top-80 anyway.

 

[captain stone]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Yeah. Some draftee who has get to take a snap in the NFL is a better player over a 6 year veteran.

A 6-year vet who's never playing another snap again, and who even when he did play
was just an average, replaceable commodity.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Yeah, like brockers, Cox, Reyes, Still are not projects, they are sure HOF.
Brockers and Cox both with a poor 26 inch vert, showing how poor lower body strength they have.

Wolfe had 33.5 inch vert, showing that he has much better lower body strength than brockers and cox. He had better college production that all those rated above him. With a little work in his run game and his hands use, he will be a beast in the pros, just like he was in college. His ceiling is much higher than brockers, cox, reyes or still, who didnt show much in pass rushing abilities in college.

Don't put too much stock in the vertical jump. The person prestretches, coils like they would not have a chance to do on the field, and then jumps in as much time as they want. This is extremely different from how their leg strength would be used on the field, the further you get away from the actual activity the less useful the information is.

If you want a useful test you'd simply have the guys line up, sound a horn, and have them push a sled. That would give you a much better indicator of how useful their strength would be.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

A 6-year vet who's never playing another snap again, and who even when he did play
was just an average, replaceable commodity.

And Wolfe can turn into a bust. He could have 0 sacks and you would still claim Wolfe>Wright.

 

[Sfpat]

And Wolfe can turn into a bust. He could have 0 sacks and you would still claim Wolfe>Wright.

Or he could turn into Gerald McCoy....O wait, I'm being redundant

 

[patsderoer]

Don't put too much stock in the vertical jump. The person prestretches, coils like they would not have a chance to do on the field, and then jumps in as much time as they want. This is extremely different from how their leg strength would be used on the field, the further you get away from the actual activity the less useful the information is.

BS.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mcoles/Vertical_Jump_249894_7.pdf
The Vertical Jump event measures lower body strength

I could come up with hundreds of articles that point the connection between the vert and the lower body strength, it's enough to just google it.

Brockers and Cox poor verticals are confirmed on the field, as they are not very good pass rushers. Cox couldn't get sacks unless the QB ran into him, and brockers had to be taken out on 3rd downs.

Wolfe on the other hand had an excellent 33.5 vert, and the college production to back it up.

 

[Sciz]

Vince Wilfork: 323 pounds, 26.5" vertical
Michael Brockers: 322 pounds, 26" vertical

 

[patsderoer]

And Wolfe can turn into a bust. He could have 0 sacks and you would still claim Wolfe>Wright.

More likely is that, with a good coach, he will improve his hands moves, and turn into another Justin Smith.

Justin Smith 49ers - Manhandles Drew Brees and Bushrod in p - YouTube

 

[patsderoer]

Vince Wilfork: 323 pounds, 26.5" vertical
Michael Brockers: 322 pounds, 26" vertical

Yeah, the Pats already have a very good NT. Time to pick up the next Justin Smith.