Mac and the "It Factor"

[Ian]

He better win because 1 - 3 is a deep hole to come out of. The next 4 games have no pushovers like the Jets.

They really needed to at least steal one of those first two. Definitely disappointing that they didn't do it, so their margin for error is certainly now a little smaller.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

What??

He took over from Tua at Alabama with slightly worse weapons and performed at least as well. Almost an A/B test.

Club Corky is at this point delusional in their hatred.

NFL is completely different than college. Tua’s strengths are much better suited to succees against NFL defenses

 

[Ian]

NFL is completely different than college. Tua’s strengths are much better suited to succees against NFL defenses

You add two guys like Waddle (Tua's college teammate) and Hill, and you're going to be more successful. The Bengals did the same thing with Chase (Burrow's teammate at LSU). Instant chemistry and elite talent. It's a perfect combination, and it completely changed the trajectory of Tua's career.

That's why it would have been cool if they had been able to get Jeudy (one of Mac's teammates at Alabama) from Denver, but I doubt Payton is going to move him. And if he does, it probably won't be within the Conference unless Belichick makes a ridiculous offer, which, as we know, is unlikely.

 

[Kasmir]

NFL is completely different than college. Tua’s strengths are much better suited to succees against NFL defenses

Besides Tyreek Hill, Waddle and an OL that is playing lights out, what strengths are those?

 

[RIpats88]

Besides Tyreek Hill, Waddle and an OL that is playing lights out, what strengths are those?

For some reason fans just don't want to admit that talent matters and has an effect on QB play and our receiving talent is mediocre.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I get that QB is a nuanced position, but with Christian Gonzalez we’re reminded that it’s usually quite obvious when a blue chip pick hits. You see elite level play. You saw it with Seymour. You saw it with Wilfork. You saw it with Gronkowski (even his rookie year he that extra level, just not consistent yet.) You saw it with McCourty. You saw it with Hightower and Jones. These guys stepped onto the field and it was clear the talent is there.

This idea of development and improvement over 3-4 years. Can it happen? Sure, but it’s rare, and usually it’s more about a short term illusory leap with all the right pieces coming together (look at guys like Flacco, Dalton, Daniel Jones who “turned the corner.”)

It can happen. It has. It usually doesn’t. The underlying raw talent (Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning) is usually the secret sauce for that type of incremental progression into high level play. Of course, even in that case, for each of those guys there are dozens of high ceiling QBs who never progress.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I get that QB is a nuanced position, but with Christian Gonzalez we’re reminded that it’s usually quite obvious when a blue chip pick hits. You see elite level play. You saw it with Seymour. You saw it with Wilfork. You saw it with Gronkowski (even his rookie year he that extra level, just not consistent yet.) You saw it with McCourty. You saw it with Hightower and Jones. These guys stepped onto the field and it was clear the talent is there.

This idea of development and improvement over 3-4 years. Can it happen? Sure, but it’s rare, and usually it’s more about a short term illusory leap with all the right pieces coming together (look at guys like Flacco, Dalton, Daniel Jones who “turned the corner.”)

It can happen. It has. It usually doesn’t. The underlying raw talent (Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning) is usually the secret sauce for that type of incremental progression into high level play. Of course, even in that case, for each of those guys there are dozens of high ceiling QBs who never progress.

I agree with most of that but your list of QBs was not the best unless I misunderstood your list. Josh Allen was awful for 2 years and Bill's fans were upset, A Rogers sat on the bench for 3 years behind Favre, and P Manning had more interceptions than TDs his first year. I am not exaggerating, Peyton had 28 interceptions and 26 TDs as a rookie.

So you start out arguing that talent is usually obvious like Gonzo, but then you argue that QBs take at least three years to mature like J Allen, A Rogers, and P Manning. I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Some of us wanted the team to trade up to get Fields. Yikes

The same arguments made to „excuse“ mac‘s performance can be made about fields
Worst coaching you can get and we all saw how mac looked under Patricia, not better

 

[sb1]

The same arguments made to „excuse“ mac‘s performance can be made about fields
Worst coaching you can get and we all saw how mac looked under Patricia, not better

Yeah Fields OL was dreadful and still is. Matt Nagy didn’t know what he was doing in Fields rookie year and set him back. I’d take his receivers over Mac’s though.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Yeah Fields OL was dreadful and still is. Matt Nagy didn’t know what he was doing in Fields rookie year and set him back. I’d take his receivers over Mac’s though.

Agree but if your offense line can’t block and your coaching and then schemes play designs suck then the wr impact is low.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Agree but if your offense line can’t block and your coaching and then schemes play designs suck then the wr impact is low.

Agreed and then if your QB is not accurate the impact is even lower. Will the Bears be 0 - 17?

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Agreed and then if your QB is not accurate the impact is even lower. Will the Bears be 0 - 17?

I think matt eberflus will not make it through the season, 3-14 maybe

 

[yukon cornelius]

Agreed and then if your QB is not accurate the impact is even lower. Will the Bears be 0 - 17?

Especially when the qb cannot read nfl defenses

 

[PATS16N0]

There’s not going to be any break out season where all of a sudden he’s dominating in the playoffs. The list of quarterbacks Mac has defeated going back to the beginning of last season is putrid.

There’s a list of AFC quarterbacks that look potentially-due for a break out season/post season that are actually believable in the post-Brady era where everybody has a shot.

Lamar Jackson is a good example of that and Mac Jones is not.

Consider how much better a QB like Lamar has looked and how much more upside compared to Mac he obviously has, and then consider that _he_ hasn’t even had his break-out year/playoff run yet. He probably took over for Flacco like a million years ago now?Mac Jones has a long line of people to usurp to have a “break out year.” Like what does break-out season even look like now? His MVP odds have to be laughably low compared to ten other AFC quarterbacks, six of which are looking for break out seasons.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think matt eberflus will not make it through the season, 3-14 maybe

Maybe. Hard to find 3 wins. A couple of wins when the other team turns over the ball?

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Maybe. Hard to find 3 wins. A couple of wins when the other team turns over the ball?

With the new coach players will be more motivated

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I agree with most of that but your list of QBs was not the best unless I misunderstood your list. Josh Allen was awful for 2 years and Bill's fans were upset, A Rogers sat on the bench for 3 years behind Favre, and P Manning had more interceptions than TDs his first year. I am not exaggerating, Peyton had 28 interceptions and 26 TDs as a rookie.

So you start out arguing that talent is usually obvious like Gonzo, but then you argue that QBs take at least three years to mature like J Allen, A Rogers, and P Manning. I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

I think you misinterpreted it.

I’m saying when a player is able to progress up the ladder, from a lower rung to a high rung, over a few years, the case studies - Manning, Allen, Rodgers - were all very high ceiling prospects. Or in other words I’m citing those 3 because inevitably people will cite them to say “but what about…he looked horrible at first but developed into a great QB.”

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[RodThePat]

For some reason fans just don't want to admit that talent matters and has an effect on QB play and our receiving talent is mediocre.

Obviously surrounding cast matters, but some fans don't want to admit that the gulf in performance between Mac and Tua right now is absurdly large and likely bigger than the difference in receiving talent around them. It's not like Tua's performing at a slightly higher level, he's been the best QB in football by a mile and Mac has been the 15th-22nd best QB in football.

As for what Tua does that makes him a better fit for NFL offenses, he's a much better anticipatory passer and is more precise with his ball location. He puts the ball in places that maximize YAC consistently and more often than Mac.

 

[RIpats88]

Obviously surrounding cast matters, but some fans don't want to admit that the gulf in performance between Mac and Tua right now is absurdly large and likely bigger than the difference in receiving talent around them. It's not like Tua's performing at a slightly higher level, he's been the best QB in football by a mile and Mac has been the 15th-22nd best QB in football.

As for what Tua does that makes him a better fit for NFL offenses, he's a much better anticipatory passer and is more precise with his ball location. He puts the ball in places that maximize YAC consistently and more often than Mac.

Id argue that the Gulf between hill/waddle and parker/juju is much bigger.

Talent matters. Throwing up tuas stats doesn't really prove much. Put Tua on this team with the lowest amount of time to throw and he's NOT the best QB in the NFL with Bourne/parker lighting it up.

Did Brady magically get more talented between 2020-2021 when he added 15tds to his stats and had a better completion percentage? No he just went from garbage receivers/OL to elite ones.

I think it's being understated how the offense operates as a whole.

Fans are delusional to think you take out Mac Jones and throw some other guy in there and we are lighting it up. But I just fail to see what more Mac or any QB could do when you have 2 seconds to throw (worst in NFL) and receivers who can't separate and are slow.

Until you upgrade the offensive talent level the offense will never be elite. We saw it with Brady in 2019 throwing to Ben Watson and sanu.

Not to mention it's no sure thing we even get someone as good as Mac Jones. Look at the Jets or every other team drafting high. Heck look at every other QB from the Mac Jones draft.