The Pats' FA Class is Straightforward

[PatsFan2]

1. Yep
2. He's WORTH IT. Pay him. The Pats biggest roster problem right now is their attitude of the price being "too high" for lots of players. Pay him. Do not let him leave. Full stop.
3. Dugger depends on cost, I agree. Mapu needs more playing time and the Pats could use a real FS.
4. Not now.
5.Henry or Gesicki. But don't break the bank for a TE.
6. I think the boat has sailed after the playing time incentive incident. Liked him, but not for any big $$$ without massive incentives. Draft a tackle high. As for Penix, watched him last night, and if the Pats grabbed him late in 1 or in 2, I'd be okay with it. I know about the injuries, but that man has a sweet, sweet touch on the ball, doesn't flinch in the face of adversity, and commands that offense. I had Nix above him until I watched them together in the same game. Penix is for real.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Nothing about the Pats off season is going to be straight forward..

Yep.

We have no idea what will happen.

 

[upstater1]

upstater that's what I don't like with you and the IBBWT crowd which should be dwindling even more. Teams pay those guys Top $$$$$ every year in FA so if it's Trent Brown in 2024 he'll get Top Dollar. What did your God BB once say "There's only so many of those guys on the planet" BB's cheap way have worked out very well for our 31st or 32nd ranked Offense keep saving those cap dollar and sign scrubs.

Trent Brown has never made $19m a year. $76m is very different than $12m.

2 different ballparks,.

If you miss on the $76m signing, you've damaged your team badly. If you miss on Riley Reiff, you still have $70m to play with over the next few years.

The tackle you sign for $20m better be a very good one, or you're toast.

But there are no good LTs available in FA so all this discussion is moot. Im just glad we don't have busts making $20m at tackle.

 

[chasa]

OT Michael Onwenu - An elite RG & an above average RT. He's their best player on offense and is worth the tag if they can't reach an agreement.

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S Kyle Dugger - An above average SS who is good against the run and inconsistent in coverage. He's a non-elite player at a devalued position. They also have Peppers signed to potentially replace him anyway.

TE Hunter Henry - A 500-600 yard receiving TE that can't block. He's replaceable but I would be fine with him returning.

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OT Trent Brown - He's gone

WR Kendrick Bourne - A WR3 coming off a torn ACL. Might be worth re-signing on a 1 year deal.

EDGE Anfernee Jennings - A run defending EDGE that won't be valued on the market. Should be able to return on a cheap deal.

EDGE Josh Uche - A 30-40% snap rotational EDGE that will be valued more elsewhere.

CB Myles Bryant - Shouldn't be starting with a healthy secondary. Not a good fit for a man defense either.

Ezekiel Elliott - 29 year old depth RB. Don't pay for depth RBs.


This seems straightforward. Thoughts?

Zeke has played like a starter, I'd love to have him back considering he can probably be had for 6 mil a year at the top end.

 

[mgteich]

Comments:

2.) Onwenu is gonna command a serious market....I mean the guy is ideally a RG, but has played at RT and LT in the past. If the market price gets too high...we might have to consider letting him walk for a comp 3rd round pick. I mean we drafted Sow and Mafi...

???

We drafted 2 guards so we don't need OT's? A 2025 3rd won't help in 2024.

We have ZERO OT's for 2024. We need THREE. If we don't keep Onwenu, where will we get them? Will we choose to pay someone other than Onwenu $15M plus and then draft a starter and a backup LT.

We are in an OK position. We have a need at OT, and we have the cap money to re-sign or franchise Onwenu.

And yes, we will need 2 draftees at LT, one in the top 40, and one in the top 100.

 

[upstater1]

???

We drafted 2 guards so we don't need OT's? A 2025 3rd won't help in 2024.

We have ZERO OT's for 2024. We need THREE. If we don't keep Onwenu, where will we get them. Will we choose to pay someone other than Onwenu $1M plus and then draft a starter and a backup.

We are in an OK position. We have a need at OT, and we have the cap money to re-sign or franchise Onwenu.

And yes, we will need 2 draftees at LT, one in the top 40, and one in the top 100.

You have to be very comfortable with a rookie 2nd rounder starting next year. We'll see. If he's the kid from BYU, he's a little green

 

[mgteich]

You have to be very comfortable with a rookie 2nd rounder starting next year. We'll see. If he's the kid from BYU, he's a little green

I'm OL with our 2nd OT draftee competing for a starting spot with next year's OT draftee. Of course, that is only necessary if we can't sign Onwenu to at least a 3 year deal.

 

[Hyped]

???

We drafted 2 guards so we don't need OT's? A 2025 3rd won't help in 2024.

We have ZERO OT's for 2024. We need THREE. If we don't keep Onwenu, where will we get them? Will we choose to pay someone other than Onwenu $15M plus and then draft a starter and a backup LT.

We are in an OK position. We have a need at OT, and we have the cap money to re-sign or franchise Onwenu.

And yes, we will need 2 draftees at LT, one in the top 40, and one in the top 100.

All good points, but if Onwenu wants to be paid like a top-of-the-market LT...do you do it? I might balk a bit...and franchise/trade him....the advantage of the FT is that it is an one year deal....so we can "wait and see" if our new LT/RT upgrades pan out...then resign him and move him inside. Another upside is him not practicing all summer...less risk of injury until September rolls around....

 

[mgteich]

All good points, but if Onwenu wants to be paid like a top-of-the-market LT...do you do it? I might balk a bit...and franchise/trade him....the advantage of the FT is that it is an one year deal....so we can "wait and see" if our new LT/RT upgrades pan out...then resign him and move him inside. Another upside is him not practicing all summer...less risk of injury until September rolls around....

I'm fine with franchising Onwenu.

 

[skinnydog]

???

We drafted 2 guards so we don't need OT's? A 2025 3rd won't help in 2024.

We have ZERO OT's for 2024. We need THREE. If we don't keep Onwenu, where will we get them? Will we choose to pay someone other than Onwenu $15M plus and then draft a starter and a backup LT.

We are in an OK position. We have a need at OT, and we have the cap money to re-sign or franchise Onwenu.

And yes, we will need 2 draftees at LT, one in the top 40, and one in the top 100.

This really highlights how poor the player personnel management has been the last few years. Going into an off season with 0 OTs under contract is insane. And to spend our first 3 picks on defense and to make no effort to even draft a developmental OT is equally insane. As such, the likely need to pay Onwenu. I don’t think they will need to franchise him, but they might have to because mismanagement has really put the team in a bind.

 

[50-yard-line]

Trent Brown has never made $19m a year. $76m is very different than $12m.

2 different ballparks,.

If you miss on the $76m signing, you've damaged your team badly. If you miss on Riley Reiff, you still have $70m to play with over the next few years.

The tackle you sign for $20m better be a very good one, or you're toast.

But there are no good LTs available in FA so all this discussion is moot. Im just glad we don't have busts making $20m at tackle.

There’s one. His name is Mike Onwenu.

 

[upstater1]

This really highlights how poor the player personnel management has been the last few years. Going into an off season with 0 OTs under contract is insane. And to spend our first 3 picks on defense and to make no effort to even draft a developmental OT is equally insane. As such, the likely need to pay Onwenu. I don’t think they will need to franchise him, but they might have to because mismanagement has really put the team in a bind.

I have no problem with grabbing value in Gonzalez and Keion White. You need to grad difference makers.

It's too early to tell if they missed out on anyone. We can't compare those 1st round / 2nd round tackles to these players yet. If those guys flame out and Gonzalez turns into an All-Pro, it's anything but mismangement.

They've been trying to draft a tackle for a while now but remember, 6 went before our pick in 2022. Last yr they just preferred Gonzalez.

As far as developmental guys, they're not developing quickly enough, and I mean Wheatley, Steuber and Lowe. But the developmental guys are there. Add McDermott and that's 4 guys who arent very good

 

[Sciz]

This really highlights how poor the player personnel management has been the last few years. Going into an off season with 0 OTs under contract is insane. And to spend our first 3 picks on defense and to make no effort to even draft a developmental OT is equally insane. As such, the likely need to pay Onwenu. I don’t think they will need to franchise him, but they might have to because mismanagement has really put the team in a bind.

As of spring 2023, they pretty clearly intended to have Anderson and Sow as two of their 2024 tackles. Through no fault of anybody at all, they can’t really count on Anderson to contribute. They might just move on in March. Sow spent the offseason and training camp at tackle before he was needed at guard. Does his successful play at guard disqualify him from “developmental tackle” status?

I can’t say I’d be surprised if Onwenu is re-signed to play right guard and he flips spots with Sow, especially if it’s a new coaching staff that doesn’t give Onwenu fair consideration at RT because he’s 6’2½”, 350 pounds, and not overly athletic.

 

[skinnydog]

Anderson was a back up in Denver for three years. Never very good. Sow was a guard in college for a run heavy offense. at Least Anderson had back up potential. Sow is a guard

 

[skinnydog]

I have no problem with grabbing value in Gonzalez and Keion White. You need to grad difference makers.

It's too early to tell if they missed out on anyone. We can't compare those 1st round / 2nd round tackles to these players yet. If those guys flame out and Gonzalez turns into an All-Pro, it's anything but mismangement.

They've been trying to draft a tackle for a while now but remember, 6 went before our pick in 2022. Last yr they just preferred Gonzalez.

As far as developmental guys, they're not developing quickly enough, and I mean Wheatley, Steuber and Lowe. But the developmental guys are there. Add McDermott and that's 4 guys who arent very good

I really like Gonzalez, and think he was too good to pass on. But with the original pick, the Steelers moved up to the PTs spot and took a tackle who is their RT now. Other tackles went in rounds 2and 3 that they passed on. I get the potential of White, they have been hurting for a tackle for a while

 

[Sciz]

Anderson was a back up in Denver for three years. Never very good. Sow was a guard in college for a run heavy offense. at Least Anderson had back up potential. Sow is a guard

According to PFF, Anderson allowed 2 sacks in his 12 starts over 3 seasons in Denver. When not battling career-threatening illness, that seems like a perfectly adequate #3 tackle. He wasn’t getting paid to be a clear starter.

Sow played tackle early in his college career and has tackle measurables. He played tackle in the NFLPA bowl before the draft. Seems silly to rule him out, especially when we’re talking about a developmental prospect.

There was obviously a plan. You don’t like it. That doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

 

[mgteich]

According to PFF, Anderson allowed 2 sacks in his 12 starts over 3 seasons in Denver. When not battling career-threatening illness, that seems like a perfectly adequate #3 tackle. He wasn’t getting paid to be a clear starter.

Sow played tackle early in his college career and has tackle measurables. He played tackle in the NFLPA bowl before the draft. Seems silly to rule him out, especially when we’re talking about a developmental prospect.

There was obviously a plan. You don’t like it. That doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Not accepting that Onwenu should be our starting RT cost us the 2022 season. Let's not repeat this mistake.

 

[DaBruinz]

MUST SIGN - Onwenu, Henry, Bourne, Jennings, P. Brown
LIKE IF -$ - Dugger, Uche, Gesicki
TAKE OR LEAVE - Mills, Elliot, Wilson, Bryant
DUMP - T. Brown, Slater (it's time)

Henry and Pharoah Brown are not "must signs". In fact, Henry is likely going to get a good deal somewhere else. Brown is actually going to be 30 around the Draft. He's nothing more than a #3 guy who can shine every now and then.. He's not some 25yr old who finally found a home.

Dugger is a must sign. He and Peppers are a great pair.

Gesicki is gone. He's been a poor fit.

Mack Wilson will be re-signed on the cheap.

Slater is still their best Special Teams coverage guy. Better thank Schooler, Board or Davis.

Elliott should be re-signed.,
Bryant will probably be re-signed.

 

[DaBruinz]

You can only extend a player who agrees to the deal. Onwenu’s agent knows, and knew, his value.

You want to keep him, you’re going to pay him like an A-level OL, because that’s what he is.

Patriots might have six good OL, if Mafi and Sow both improve, but going into next year, they have ZERO good tackles other than Onwenu.

Pay him. Whatever it costs, pay him.

Onwenu is not a "GOOD" tackle. He's a JAG at tackle. He got abused quite a bit there this season despite what PFF claims. He and Dave Andrews were the two biggest issues on the O-line last game. Yes. Bigger issues than Mafi. I lost track of the stunts that Andrews failed to pick up. And Onwenu got burned on the outside several times in both the run and pass game.

There were other games where he was bad. People here didn't want to listen.

Onwenu is a stellar RG. He's a JAG at RT.
I've said since about mid-season that the Pats needed bookend tackles. That still stands.

Trent Brown is gone. McDermott is probably a camp cut/ps signee.

It remains to be seen what happens with Calvin Anderson.

I don't know that there will be any RT who is worth anything will be available. Jonah Williams, who was the worst in 2022, bounced back to have just a slightly below-average year. He might not receive a huge offer from someone . None of the ones currently listed are worth anything except as a longshot in Jake Curhan. Beyond that, you have penalty machine Mekhi Beckton and others who barely took snaps there.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not accepting that Onwenu should be our starting RT cost us the 2022 season. Let's not repeat this mistake.

That's just ridiculous. In 2022, they has Isaiah Wynn at RT. Which was a mistake because Wynn wasn't built for it nor was he happy playing there in a contract year.

Trent Brown should have been the starting RT in 2022 and in 2023. Trent Brown NOT being the RT is what cost them in BOTH seasons. Placating Brown is what cost the Pats.

Not using Lowe at LT when he'd been playing there with the Viking while on their PS and during PS partly cost them the 2023 season.
Not coming to an agreement with one of the 6 top RTs that were available while settling for Reiff is what partly cost them the 2023 season.
The Injuries to Reiff and McDermott and the mysterious Illness of Andersons attributed significantly more to the RT issues than your claium of "not accepting that Onwenu should be the starting RT".

But, why bother with reality when we can throw BS out that ignores tons of facts..