If you were Kraft and this season doesn’t improve, do you move on from Bill after this season?

[ensoul]

I think Kraft wants to see him break Shulas record while he’s a Patriot. If this record deal wasn’t in reach or had been reached already I think Bill would be fired at the end of this season. Out of respect I don’t think Kraft would fire Bill mid season.

Belichick is still 18 wins away from catching Shula for all time wins. Honestly at this rate it could take him three more seasons.

If he's try to catch his regular season record he needs 30 wins and that could take him 5 years.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm not sure it has to be official. We've seen that he was told to be more collaborative in picks the last couple years and it's obvious that he has been. I think if Kraft told him the same had to be true for the WRs, Bill would find a way to live with it.

Bill has been able to delegate a lot of the responsibility, but I think he still has maintained final say on every pick.

My concern is that 2024 is the perfect time to rebuild this team. They are likely going to have high draft picks and tons and tons of cash. Do we want to build this team in Belichick's image only for him to retire in a few years even if the personnel won't fit the next regime's vision for talent or do they turn a page and bring in the next regime and build it to their system. Odds are good that unless they promote from within, anything the current regime builds for their needs will bring in players not suited for the next system. If we are only talking one or two more years of Belichick, it might be better to make the transition after this season.

 

[Boston Boxer]

I have backed BB for the whole time, but i think it is time to move on. His message and way of doing things is lost on the players and they are not responding. The lack of an OLine is the most troubling thing for me. Mac has been pretty bad but it is really tough to critique anyone's skills behind this line. No run game this year to speak of. The talent at WR/TE is not that bad but we could use someone to stretch the field. That is all on BB and at some point Kraft cannot overlook all that when we are in for a very rough season. It's not the loses for me, its the performance on the filed and yesterday was embarrassing. Another one of those game and i think BB should be gone...play out the season with what we have and then hire a GM. Let the GM hire a coach and go from there with a fresh voice

 

[upstater1]

I do not AT ALL think that is sufficient. To take an incremental approach is to create ambiguities, misunderstandings, pissing contests, backbiting and other forms of horseshit which are wholly unacceptable in any properly functioning organization. The proof in any case is in the pudding: the team, which Bill built, blows.

I took over a dysfunctional group once upon a time in which "sharing" and "consensus" were all. The group was an ugly, angry, dysfunctional, squabbling mess. I laid out in what areas consensus would be sought and in which areas I would make the decisions. Where decisions were made by consensus, once the group's decision was made, it was the job of everyone, regardless of where they had stood in the deliberations, to support the decision and make it work. I said I would get rid of anybody who would not so conduct themselves. In the end, I had to get rid of two people on that basis. In a few months' time, the group was running smoothly and as copacetically as is consistent with getting **** done. Organizations need clarity, - period - if they are to work.

Buffalo Bills run it the same way. Bills GM is the coach's guy. Consistency and continuity is the key to winning in the NFL. Andy Reid doesn't do any scouting. You don't think he has the final say?

For me this is the optimal way to run things because no one knows the team better than the coach.

 

[1960Pats]

BB is still the best in the biz. You hear it all the time from players of all experience levels how spending time with BB drastically changes their game. It’s why we don’t have very many players leave and become better than they were here.

Every team that is good right now sucked for some period of time. Whether it was a year, two years, or 20 in the case of Buffalo. Fans need to stop acting entitled and start being patient.

Bill is a great HC but an average GM. If we could get him a new GM it would be the best for everyone. But that just isn't going to happen.

With the success the team has had I'll be able to put up with plenty of losing, but that doesn't mean that I have to support the all decisions that the owner and coaches make. For all any of us know a change might be better.

 

[GaryfromTO]

Belichick is still 18 wins away from catching Shula for all time wins. Honestly at this rate it could take him three more seasons.

If he's try to catch his regular season record he needs 30 wins and that could take him 5 years.

With the product Bill has put on the field, it could take him anywhere fom 9-18 seasons to catch Shula's all time win record, and anywher from 15 - 30 seasons to catch his regular season record.

 

[Thelonious]

I'm not sure it has to be official. We've seen that he was told to be more collaborative in picks the last couple years and it's obvious that he has been. I think if Kraft told him the same had to be true for the free agents, especially WRs, Bill would find a way to live with it.

Far, far, far too squishy an approach given both the stakes and the obdurate nature of the personalities involved. This is a time for decision and action, not for compromises guaranteed to fail. Not only WILL such mincing half-measures fail; they demonstrably HAVE failed. The team blows.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Bill has been able to delegate a lot of the responsibility, but I think he still has maintained final say on every pick.

Right, but it's clear that he was told to listen to the consensus, and by these last few drafts, it seems like he has. He can still have "final say" but also with an emphasis on consensus. I don't see why that approach can't be taken with free agents/trades if both sides want to continue the relationship.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Far, far, far too squishy an approach given both the stakes and the obdurate nature of the personalities involved. This is a time for decision and action, not for compromises guaranteed to fail. Not only WILL such mincing half-measures fail; they demonstrably HAVE failed. The team blows.

It's worked on the drafts. The last two drafts have been universally praised. If you want results, that's one thing. If you want to put Bill in his place, that's another.

 

[1960Pats]

Bill Walsh would lose his job with Corky Gump.

I remember mentioning back in preseason that the Pats would be ****ed if neither Jones nor Zappe turn into an NYFL QB. Well, it looks like they may be ****ed.

 

[203Pat]

Lol

Name 10 starting QBs he’s better then. Don’t use salary as a reason because he’s due for an extension soon. I can’t think of many that themselves aren’t just a temporary starter or a rookie.

If you treat the exercise as for one year or one game whatever you want to use with salary removed from the equation:

I mean I can think of the Jets with Wilson, who is only a starter because of injury. Maybe Washington with Sam Howell? However that might be a wash. The Cardinals with Dobbs. Desmond Ridder in Atlanta.

So I think that is 2 day one starters I would say Mac is better than and one guy who is a backup in reality and maybe a toss up with Howell.

 

[Thelonious]

Right, but it's clear that he was told to listen to the consensus, and by these last few drafts, it seems like he has. He can still have "final say" but also with an emphasis on consensus. I don't see why that approach can't be taken with free agents/trades if both sides want to continue the relationship.

Utter nonsense. To take such a weak approach is to perpetuate the dysfunction. This is a time for decisiveness. The depth of Bill's failures as GM disqualify him from any central role in GM work. He should have input - the sort of input any HC would have - but the value the GM puts on that input must be entirely at the GM's discretio.. The GM might be wise on occasion to attend to Bill's input, but he must not be required to do so.

 

[upstater1]

Recently I have been holding out hope that they could salvage Mac so I haven't wanted them to trade up for a QB. But the 2024 draft we may not even have to give up much at this point to get a top 5 player.

Tyreek I just flat out don't want because he is a horrible human being. AJ Brown I would make that trade 10 times out of 10. He is who Harry was supposed to be. Why would he "not come to New England"? A first and a third for a legitimate number one receiver?

I don't know what your argument is? Just keep going as we are? Is that what you want? Just keep hoping for the best drafting defensive players high and paying B and C level offensive players in free agency?

AJ Brown went to the Eagles because it's where one of his best friends was playing. AJ stayed with Hurts when AJ visited Alabama. Guess who was with AJ Brown and family when the Titans drafted AJ Brown? Jalen Hurts was sitting right besides AJ. They talked about wanting to play together before AJ even played a down for the Titans.

This is an old story: Tyreek, Aj Brown, Davante Adams. They want to go where they want to go.

That doesn't mean the Patriots shouldn't try to trade for Tee Higgins. Who said that? I didn't.

I'm only pointing out that it's useless saying they were wrong for not trading for the big 3, as though they could've. Or that they had the ability to trade for the WRs who go in the top 10 and usually end up being studs (at least in recent years).

These things have been beyond the Patriots. It's very hard grabbing a bonafide #1 like these guys.

You just have to hope you hit on a later round guy that becomes your #1, like a Metcalf, but the hit rate for that is low.

 

[Thelonious]

It's worked on the drafts. The last two drafts have been universally praised. If you want results, that's one thing. If you want to put Bill in his place, that's another.

The jury is still out on the last two drafts. The record over time, particlarly as relates to offensive trades, free agents, and draft picks, is abysmal. This is not the time for weak-kneed half measures. You have a failed employee - Bill the GM: fire him. It happens all the time. Just ask Bill. This ain't a bridge club.

 

[203Pat]

AJ Brown went to the Eagles because it's where one of his best friends was playing. AJ stayed with Hurts when AJ visited Alabama. Guess who was with AJ Brown and family when the Titans drafted AJ Brown? Jalen Hurts was sitting right besides AJ. They talked about wanting to play together before AJ even played a down for the Titans.

This is an old story: Tyreek, Aj Brown, Davante Adams. They want to go where they want to go.

That doesn't mean the Patriots shouldn't try to trade for Tee Higgins. Who said that? I didn't.

I'm only pointing out that it's useless saying they were wrong for not trading for the big 3, as though they could've. Or that they had the ability to trade for the WRs who go in the top 10 and usually end up being studs (at least in recent years).

These things have been beyond the Patriots. It's very hard grabbing a bonafide #1 like these guys.

You just have to hope you hit on a later round guy that becomes your #1, like a Metcalf, but the hit rate for that is low.

AJ Brown went to the Eagles because he was traded there and then paid $100 million there. If he were traded here and paid $100 million he would be here.

They go where they will be paid. Money makes players happy. Bill would rather bargain shop for bums like Juju and Agholor than invest in real number one guys.

Once again what is it you want to do here? Stay the course and hope for the best?

 

[1960Pats]

Could 100% see a situation where he gets fired, goes to the Chargers or Jets, then they go on a spending spree to sell out for a couple years and win a title.

What in Bill's history tells you that he's able to spend appropriately? I see a HC who benefitted from having the GOAT at QB who didn't require a contract that broke the bank, like every other QB does.

What I see is a HC/GM who has 6 rings, plus 2 as a coach, and at his age may be content with simply clearing a path for his kids. I'd be fine with him doing that somewhere else if that's what he wants.

 

[mike_usagisan]

The jury is still out on the last two drafts. The record over time, particlarly as relates to offensive trades, free agents, and draft picks, is abysmal. This is not the time for weak-kneed half measures. You have a failed employee - Bill the GM: fire him. It happens all the time. This ain't a bridge club.

I think you're wrong about the jury on the drafts, but if you want to dispute the results, that's fine. But for the process, he was told to collaborate more, and he did. He didn't need to be threatened or fired or any of that.

As for the free agency stuff, I don't disagree. I think he's an excellent bargain shopper and right now we need to do better. I think Kraft goes to him, like the businessman who likes to foster relationships that he is, and says, we'd like to consider having more of a consensus approach. And Bill, will probably agree, like he did with the drafts.

I get you're angry and want to make a bold move. But that doesn't sound like Kraft's way, and he's the only one who makes that call.

 

[Triumph]

You sound mad and triggered. U ok?

I'm giving you a compliment, it took a while but I'm glad you finally accepted the truth about your boy the smurf. I'm glad you admit your binky has no future in this league and never belonged in the league to begin with. He was a bad draft pick by Bill when if they really wanted a QB in the later rounds they could have had Sam Howell who is much better than the smurf and perhaps more upside than Jones too. Time to find a good QB now.

Be clown shoes proud.

You had a good run trolling.

 

[Rob0729]

AJ Brown went to the Eagles because he was traded there and then paid $100 million there. If he were traded here and paid $100 million he would be here.

They go where they will be paid. Money makes players happy. Bill would rather bargain shop for bums like Juju and Agholor than invest in real number one guys.

Once again what is it you want to do here? Stay the course and hope for the best?

Yeah, AJ Brown would have gone anywhere he was going to get paid the most. Would he like to play with his friend? I am sure he would. But this is a business and players typically follow the money.

Plus he didn't have a choice where he was traded to. He could have refused to sign a long term deal with whoever traded for him, but he risked getting franchised and potentially losing out on tens of millions if he sucked at his new location or got injured.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The jury is still out on the last two drafts. The record over time, particlarly as relates to offensive trades, free agents, and draft picks, is abysmal. This is not the time for weak-kneed half measures. You have a failed employee - Bill the GM: fire him. It happens all the time. Just ask Bill. This ain't a bridge club.

The last two drafts are right on schedule with the others since 2014 - not impactful enough. Using resources on the same positions over and over again will not improve your team overall.